writing for 6 basses and/or writing for 2 spock drums????

Can anyone help me? I am writing for a line and the instructor tells me he has 6 bass drums and 4 sets of tenors with 2 spock drums.
How do I write for this?
I am usine Finale 2004 and VD.. right now I start at the E line and drag up or down to get the notes I want on the tenor or bass voice, but it won't add more notes. It just stops at the top/first Bass and the 1 shot drum.
AHHHHHH help! please! I don't even care if the one extra note doesn't play, I just need to be able to write for 6 basses and 2 spock drums A.S.A.P.
any help would be appreciated!

Will Gordillo
Yes...I vote for the deletion of some little-used sounds to create an 8-Member Bass Instrument.  I am willing to pay for this instrument as a separate add-on to get it soon if it is priced similar to the template.  Hopefully it will be a part of the next upgrade...6,1???
I have personally never used a unison dread roll, though that does sound like some sushi you might pick up at Walmart. I also haven't gotten much use out of the individual drum cresc/decresc buzz rolls.

I'm presuming that we would end up with the existing bass drum instruments with an additional "8 Man BassLine" or something of the likes?
Certainly not out of the question. The reason we didn't surpass 6 drums with VDL2+ was to keep the mapping consistent, and following a similar layout to the 6 drums you have with the tenors as well.

Since adding two more drums to the bassline map would cross into the territory of other mapped sounds, we'd likely have to remove other sounds to make room for the additional drums. Basically, we'd have to remove something old to add something new. But for most purposes, maybe this isn't a big deal.

For those of you who would like an 8-drum bassline, how detrimental would it be to remove the cresc/decres rolls for individual bass drums? Also, how about the unison dread rolls? I assume these would be less likely missed since they're so specialized.

[quote author=patrickzampetti link=topic=368.msg16710#msg16710 date=1245786482]
I guess 8 bass drums is completely out of the question.
[/quote]

No, it's not out of the question. You would have to dig into the full version of Kontakt to do it though. Go back in this thread and re-read what Coach and Jim posted.

I don't know how practical it would actually be, but you could have 10 bass drums if you wanted.
I guess 8 bass drums is completely out of the question.
[quote author=palosjr link=topic=368.msg11673#msg11673 date=1200283713]
so are u trying to add a new "sound" to the template? or are u just making it to where we would need to do a keychange to get this extra sound? either way this is pretty sweet... makes me wanna get the full KP
[/quote]

Sean needs to be able to write for 7 bass drums. In the course of trying to come up with something that may work for him, it could very well get put into the Template.

Step one:�� One way this can happen is to have the full version of Kontakt and add all the necessary ingredients himself - which as Jim said could be "gut" wrenching. ;) Or shall I actually quote him...

[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=368.msg11658#msg11658 date=1200212045]
Hi Sean. As you already know, you'll get 6 different drums with VDL 2.5. As mentioned earlier in this topic, if you need to synthetically create a seventh drum you can do this with Kontakt (not Kontakt Player). Bear in mind this important notion. Kontakt will not "do it" for you. You'd need to invest the time in learning how the Kontakt programming works. Given the marching bassline instruments of VDL are fairly complex this wouldn't be a quick endeavor and would require you to get "under the hood" with the [b]guts[/b] of the instrument to pitch shift current samples, and map them to different, unused portions of the existing instrument. This process is certainly possible, but the options for doing so would be pretty wide ranging and too involved to supply an explanation of here. With a working understanding of how things are programmed in Kontakt, this would be possible.
[/quote]

Step two:�� The second way to get the seventh drum is to do pretty much what I did in the Seven_Bass_test.sib file that I provided a link for above. In that example I only mapped the L and R main hits (the others wouldn't be too much to add either). As is sits now it would be quite usable (if everything was mapped in the instrument) . The only thing you would have to do is add all of the pitch bend text (~B0,[i]byte[/i]) to the score anytime you wanted to hear "Drum 0", as I'm currently calling it.

In this case, step one isn't really necessary since you can see and hear that the pitch bend text will do the job just fine.

However, what I would like to do is set the sound set up in such a way that the user would not have to use staff text at all. For those of you who are feeling geeky at the moment, here is a picture of what the XML code would look like if I could have my way:

�� �� ��[img]http://members.cox.net/oldhands101/pics/pitchbend.jpg[/img]

There are a couple more settings that would have to be there that you can't see in this picture, but if I could set it up this way you would just have to make sure that the noteheads you wanted played by Drum 0 were placed on the correct space of the staff - in this case the B space above the staff. No staff text, no MIDI messages; just write and go!

Anyway, I have a question into one of the people that I think can help with this, and another to someone else soon.

We'll see...





so are u trying to add a new "sound" to the template? or are u just making it to where we would need to do a keychange to get this extra sound? either way this is pretty sweet... makes me wanna get the full KP

This file has the main L and R hits mapped to their own space:

�� ��[url]http://members.cox.net/oldhands101/files/Seven_Bass_test.sib[/url]

It wouldn't be difficult at all to map all of the sounds to a "Drum 0". My main objective at this point is to get Sibelius to send the correct MIDI message to KP2 without having to type the text into the score. So far it is not working out the way I would like.

I have one more idea ...

This i sweet. I just worked with the .sib file, and what makes this pretty cool is that u can have the sound playback, but have it mapped in layer 2, and then just notate the note on the A ledger line and u see what would be bass seven or if u wanted to put it on the B space above the staff that would work to. I guess what I am trying to get at is that u can hide the sound that is being played from a different layer and have it notated correctly... if that makes any sense?
Yeah, I know how I want to have the sound set setup, but so far I haven't figured out how to do it, if I can at all. So far the problem is with being able to define the "~B0,[i]byte[/i]" command in the sound set. If I can do that the way I want to then we will be golden.

I may have to consult the sound set "guru" to see what is possible.

Worst case:  Sean (users) will have to enter the pitch bend messages by hand.

Late
Wow! I figured pitch bends like this were going to be possible, but I guess where I got stuck was how to have those automatically applied to a mapped note within the instrument (without having to enter the pitch bend midi messages). But I see your gears turning, and it sounds like a solution is on the horizon. Right on Hugh!
I have the solution - well, my initial tests work great anyway!

Download and listen to the following file:

�� ��[url]http://members.cox.net/oldhands101/files/Seven_Bass.sib[/url]

The next step is to add entries to the sound set so you don't have to enter the MIDI messages all of the time. After that is done, add the entries to the instrument mappings.

I will let you know when I am done.

Oh, and BTW, you won't have to do anything in KP2. Woo Hoo!!
That's actually an interesting idea Hugh. I don't know if it's possible though. That would take a little more investigative research, but something tells me it'd be a little awkward to coax Sibelius into this type of behavior to manipulate only a few pitches within a patch.
Hey Jim

I haven't tried it myself yet, but is it at all possible to do a "pitch shift" in KontaktPlayer2 directly to either Drum 1 (going up) or Drum 6 (going down)? I know that you can do some EQ-ing to get different results, just wondering if there was enough tweakableness in KP2 to get a large enough interval between sounds - and of course something that otherwise sounds good.

My idea is to have Sean add the appropriate mappings to the BassLine instrument he wants to use and then apply the MIDI messages to those notes when in the score. Right now I am thinking that it may be easier to do this going up, adding a drum above the current Drum 1.

Anyway, just an idea.

Late

Hi Sean. As you already know, you'll get 6 different drums with VDL 2.5. As mentioned earlier in this topic, if you need to synthetically create a seventh drum you can do this with Kontakt (not Kontakt Player). Bear in mind this important notion. Kontakt will not "do it" for you. You'd need to invest the time in learning how the Kontakt programming works. Given the marching bassline instruments of VDL are fairly complex this wouldn't be a quick endeavor and would require you to get "under the hood" with the guts of the instrument to pitch shift current samples, and map them to different, unused portions of the existing instrument. This process is certainly possible, but the options for doing so would be pretty wide ranging and too involved to supply an explanation of here. With a working understanding of how things are programmed in Kontakt, this would be possible.
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