I know this is off-topic from the software, but I know the folks who frequent this board are among the most qualified to help!

My bass line is pretty kickin' but I can't get the articulation and clarity out of their multi-note splits like I'd like to.

We're using Evans heads and most drums have a little extra yamaha muffling, so they're pretty dead. And promark standard wooden bass mallets. These are yamaha drums 20,22,24,26,28";. The tuning is pretty high on each drum -- as high as I can get it before it gets expensive.

When we play sixteens per drum we can get it sounding good, but triplet 16's sound pretty muddy (and I don't think we're ready to do any serious 32nd note business - not any in our show either). I'm guessing this has less to do with equipment and more to do with hands than anything else. We talk about opening the notes, playing all of the notes the same volume, etc..., but I'm just not getting the results I want.

They are a very good-natured group and will do anything I ask of them without complaing. I just wonder if I am giving them the wrong information...

Can you shed some light on what the issue might be? If you thought it would help, I'd record an mp3 and post it too.

Thanks!!!

Hey Eric,

I've run in to similar problems with my groups.  One thing I've always gotten them to do is focus on opening up the hands.  Also, try getting them to move the fulcrum from the thumb and index finger to the thumb and middle finger.  I've had great results using this method.

It may sound a bit unorthodox, but i've had some positive results when I have my kids start the group of three with their non-dominant hand.  The brain works that hand slower and it results in opening up the threes.  (Smoothness and tempo can suffer with that method FYI).

I second moving the fulcrum. 

Other things to try: (and you may have done these already)
- start slow then gradually speed up
- have one or two kids play an eighth note in place of their triplet (ie. 1 & a 2, 3 & a 4).  Switch that around between different drums.  It isolates different triplet groupings and relieves some of the tension built up by playing many notes consecutively.

Yeah, playing bass drum is kind of tricky because players have to find a balance between listening and relying on counting.

Good luck, hope this helps.

- OT

[quote author=Owen Taylor link=topic=1386.msg6169#msg6169 date=1160156519]

Other things to try: (and you may have done these already)
- start slow then gradually speed up
- have one or two kids play an eighth note in place of their triplet (ie. 1 & a 2, 3 & a 4).  Switch that around between different drums.  It isolates different triplet groupings and relieves some of the tension built up by playing many notes consecutively.

[/quote]

I've tried both of those and they certainly have helped. I don't think I would have ever thought to try moving the fulcrum or starting on the left (all students are rh'd). Thanks for the suggestions, I'll employ them right away!
ER

Good suggestions. An old trick Kent Cater taught me was to have each player kind of ";crescendo"; each three notes. Not a huge crescendo, but enough growth so that it leads into the next player's part. Especially with younger kids, they tend to put too much emphasis on the start of their part, and let it die out. Having them address this tendency really helps clarity. Definitely start slow and work up to speed. Good luck!

[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1386.msg6173#msg6173 date=1160171529]
have each player kind of ";crescendo"; each three notes
[/quote]

Amen to that.  Works wonders for threes and fours.

Have them initiate their stroke on the & count (or full beat before) before they play.  This forces the mallets to move in time before they play.

I echo what Jim says. I always tell my students to try and accent the final beat they play in a triplet or 32nd notes. It will force them to push to the end of their phrase because so many kids focus the attack and just throw their mallets at the head like Jim referred to with their sound dying out.

[quote author=tylerdurden link=topic=1386.msg6176#msg6176 date=1160183918]
Have them initiate their stroke on the & count (or full beat before) before they play.  This forces the mallets to move in time before they play.
[/quote]

VERY good point here.  Make sure they are moving their hands well in advance before playing.  Also, I agree with the crescendo through the note grouping idea from Jim and others...

One trick I'd give you...  have them practice their 32nd runs as 16ths first, with just the right, then just the left.  Then have then isolate themselves playing 4 notes within a half beat individually.

If the breakdown is that you're shifting drums each eighth note, then keep them focused on that.  Make them think about 4, or 3, or however many notes go evenly into the span of an eighth.  Don't have them thinking about 32nd notes - have them think about playing 4 notes within ";their"; eighth.  :)

I think another important thing that may not necessarily apply to this topic but I use for teaching bass drummers anyway is ";Don't tell them what they are doing is hard.";

I've taught inexperienced bass drummers and had them throwing down all kinds of sixes and 32nd notes in their show because I try to make them believe what they are doing is easy. They are given the basic understanding of playing 8th notes and that all they need to do is place 3 or 4 notes in the beat in that space. From there I can then clean the balancing of hand to hand, how open or closed their beats are, etc.

I firmly believe drumming isn't rocket science and everything can be broken into a simple concept. I even broke down the concept of playing the off beats in 16th notes (e's & uh's), triplets and 32nd notes into something very basic that a lot of people overlook.

Wow guys this is some great stuff being said here. Thanks for the info.

Chad Collver

Amen on the ";not hard";.  Nothing is easy, but it's not hard.  It's always achievable.  You wouldn't give it to them otherwise.  Then you give them a few things out of their range, and the half they don't do well, you hose.  It works.

I've never heard of moving the fulcrum. Is that how most of the drum corps bass lines do it? Can someone go more into detail about how to move the fulcrum from your thumb to your index finger. Im curious now because I think thats the problems with my bass drummers, I just couldnt pinpoint exactly what was wrong. But like a lot of other people on here, I never would have thought of that. Thanks for the good info

Best quote I ever have seen was in the old Cavies Technique books...

Paraphrased by me...

";There's no such thing as ";I don't know"; - you're either familiar or unfamiliar with something, and if you're unfamiliar with something, work at it until it becomes familiar";