Open Rolls (32nds) - RH Dominance (Pulse)

Finale 2007
Windows XP
Pentium 4 HT
1.2 GB RAM

I'm finding that open rolls in 4/4 (32nd notes) sound very uneven . . . There's a heavier eighth-note pulse on the right hand.

In Finale, the midi velocity settings are the same for each hand (-63) . . . but the RH comes across as heavier . . . thus making longer open rolls sound uneven.

I'm using the Smart Playback plug-in (overriding Human Playback).

I tried to experiment with editing the midi velocities in Finale . . . but for some reason, with negative (-) numbers, they return a value of zero . . . when you go back and check them after editing.

Any suggestions to make the rolls sound more smooth?

M.
Um, yeah . . . 2 GB of memory kinda makes a difference.
There are too many to recommend definitively. If you aren't looking to spend much money, the Audiophile 2496 (M-Audio) is something to consider. Tapspace will be selling these soon as they're probably one of the lowest cost solutions for people who are getting started with professional audio hardware and software.

You might find this article on Sweetwater helpful:
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/computer-audio/audio_interfaces/buying_guide.php
Jim,

Could you recommend a good high-end soundcard?

I'm running Windows XP with a Pentium 4 HT.

Thanks,

M.
Jim,

I agree . . . I'll eventually break down and buy a much better soundcard.

M.
Great!

Ultimately, I'd still recommend using the [i]actual[/i] Audigy ASIO driver. ASIO4all is pretty great for folks that don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard. But as far as I can tell, your card should include ASIO drivers, which (in theory) should be more reliable at interfacing with your hardware. Basically ASIO4all is something of a hack to fool cheaper soundcards into better latency performance.

I don't have much experience with Creative Labs, but long-term you might want to eventually consider an audio card that's geared more toward pro audio. Not that Soundblasters are all bad. Many people use them with good results. I guess it's more  a sense that they target their stuff toward the gaming/entertainment market. If the aim is toward high quality audio production, don't shop for gear at Best Buy. [i](sorry Bill)[/i] :)
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1576.msg7549#msg7549 date=1172377348]
Your Audigy card should come with ASIO drivers. DirectSound and MultiMedia (MME) don't perform nearly as well as ASIO. If this is all kind of new to you, there's a brief description of each in the glossary of the VDL2 user guide. If you had the ASIO driver correctly installed, it should show up as an option under the ";Interface"; setting in the VDL2 soundcard setup window. I think your top priority is to get those correct drivers installed. I don't know my way around the massive Creative Labs site, but maybe someone could help direct you to the exact download you'd need. I'm not sure why that wasn't automatically installed with the included software for your soundcard. That'd be a question for Creative I guess..

In most cases, keeping your sample rate at 44.1k will perform best and be easier for your system to process than higher settings like 48k.

Your latency setting is pretty low, which will definitely increase the overhead on your CPU. This setting varies from computer to computer, but if you're using decent drivers, setting this around 30-40 miliseconds will give your processor more room to breathe.

Then again, these VDL2 soundcard settings are really only pertinent if you're running in standalone mode. If you're hosting it as a Plugin, the host program would normally be where you'd adjust such settings.

Then again, if your various tinkering is improving your results, then so be it. :) As constantly noted here, there's not one surefire list of settings that everyone can use. Knowing what the settings do is important, so you can make good decisions about which way to nudge.

Thanks for including all your settings. It's always much more helpful to analyze things with that info.
[/quote]

Jim,

I think you may be getting to the heart of the matter here�� . . .

I agree with you about the Creative Labs site . . . Way too much stuff to wade through . . . But I did find an ";ASIO4all"; download online, and it seems to be paying dividends.

I now have ASIO configured in VDL:2 . . . and the following are updated audio examples of my earlier postings:

[b]TRIPLET ROLLS[/b] (mp3)

[b]DIDDLES[/b] (mp3)

My playback may not be perfect yet . . . but I think it's vastly improved from the earlier examples I posted.

I continue to welcome feedback from anyone who still hears imperfections, tempo problems, etc. . . . But I think I'm on the right track now.

Jim . . . Thanks so much for sticking with this, and offering input as needed.

M.
Your Audigy card should come with ASIO drivers. DirectSound and MultiMedia (MME) don't perform nearly as well as ASIO. If this is all kind of new to you, there's a brief description of each in the glossary of the VDL2 user guide. If you had the ASIO driver correctly installed, it should show up as an option under the ";Interface"; setting in the VDL2 soundcard setup window. I think your top priority is to get those correct drivers installed. I don't know my way around the massive Creative Labs site, but maybe someone could help direct you to the exact download you'd need. I'm not sure why that wasn't automatically installed with the included software for your soundcard. That'd be a question for Creative I guess..

In most cases, keeping your sample rate at 44.1k will perform best and be easier for your system to process than higher settings like 48k.

Your latency setting is pretty low, which will definitely increase the overhead on your CPU. This setting varies from computer to computer, but if you're using decent drivers, setting this around 30-40 miliseconds will give your processor more room to breathe.

Then again, these VDL2 soundcard settings are really only pertinent if you're running in standalone mode. If you're hosting it as a Plugin, the host program would normally be where you'd adjust such settings.

Then again, if your various tinkering is improving your results, then so be it. :) As constantly noted here, there's not one surefire list of settings that everyone can use. Knowing what the settings do is important, so you can make good decisions about which way to nudge.

Thanks for including all your settings. It's always much more helpful to analyze things with that info.
I set the sampling rate all the way up to 9600 . . .

And I turned the Routing to ";Not Connected";

I think it sounds a little better now. Not perfect yet . . . but I think I hear a difference.

M.
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1576.msg7539#msg7539 date=1172286988]
I'm no expert with this, but are you certain your Audigy drivers are installed? You should be able to download the most current versions directly from Creative Labs.
[/quote]

I went to Creative Labs, and their site detected my card, and the only update that came back was a patch to fix a problem with grace note playback. So no help there.

[b]My VDL:2 Settings:[/b]

SOUND CARD:

Interface: DirectSound -- (other choice is MultiMedia)

Sample rate: was 44100 . . . but I just updated that to [b]4800[/b] (so we'll se if that helps)

Output Device: DS Sigma Tel Audio -- (other choice is Modem #0 Line Playback - emulated).

Output Latency: 10 ms


ROUTING:

Outputs: DS Sigma Tel Audio -- (only other choice is ";not connected";)


MIDI:

Input Interface is E-MU Xboard49 -- (Output Interfaces choices are turned off)



[b]My Finale 2007 Settings:[/b]

Midi In Device: E-MU Xbpard49

Midi Out Device: Several options here:

[list]
[li]None[/li]
[li]Creative SoundFont Synthesizer[/li]
[li]Default Midi Output Device[/li]
[li]Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth[/li]
[li]SmartMusic Softsynth -- 8 different choices, 1-8[/li]
[li]E-MU Xboard49[/li]
[/list]

All sound the same . . . even when set to ";None";

Match On/Off setting is Unchecked



I'm no expert with this, but are you certain your Audigy drivers are installed? You should be able to download the most current versions directly from Creative Labs.
Well, I think the best way for you to proceed is to get Finale to use your SoundBlaster.  Maybe someone else can offer you more help with that directly, but as it seems here, you've got a decent card not in use, and an onboard card that's getting maxed out.  See if you can manipulate Finale into using your better card, and see if that produces better results.
[quote author=drumcat link=topic=1576.msg7536#msg7536 date=1172283847]
That seems mismatched to me...
[/quote]

Well, under Audio, there are only two choices . . . Sigma Tel and ";Modem #0 Line Playback.";

There are some properties that can be edited for Sigma Tel.
That seems mismatched to me...
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1576.msg7522#msg7522 date=1172263306]
[quote author=Mark A. Moore link=topic=1576.msg7513#msg7513 date=1172204919]
Okay . . . It sounds like I need input from people who are running VDL:2 as a VST plug-in Finale 2007.

I've updated the Finale Library . . . and I've Installed the DFD extension.

I've tried various combinations of HP Playback vs. Smart Playback . . . and I've tweaked the tempo settings . . . but it all sounds the same. RH dominance prevails on long open rolls (32nds) . . . and, as we've seen, on the triplet rolls as well (uneven tempo).

In Smart Playback . . . the diddle notes on Layer 1 are coming back as level -63 . . .while the hidden diddle-completing notes on Layer 4 are coming at a level of 64 in the midi tool. All tweaks and changes I've tried in both layers have had no positive effect on the playback.

Ultimately . . . I don't care about the sounds. What really matters is the notes I deliver on paper. However, it would really be an asset to provide a realistic audio file to accompany the notes.

M.
[/quote]

If your using Windows and have a cheap soundcard, the wobbly rhyhms may be resulting from that...not necessarily Finale. Any idea if your audio card is running ASIO drivers?

As far as I know, Finale (as a VST host) doesn't allow you any control over soundcard latency/buffer size. Meaning, if it's trying to churn out more than your audio drivers can handle, it could result in bad rhythms. What are your audio card/driver specs?
[/quote]

My Soundcard is an Audigy Soundblaster Advanved MB . . . (And so far, it's made no difference whether the Equalizer and/or EAX Console settings are enabled or disabled).

The Playback Device is Sigma Tel High Definition Audio Codec.
[quote author=Mark A. Moore link=topic=1576.msg7513#msg7513 date=1172204919]
Okay . . . It sounds like I need input from people who are running VDL:2 as a VST plug-in Finale 2007.

I've updated the Finale Library . . . and I've Installed the DFD extension.

I've tried various combinations of HP Playback vs. Smart Playback . . . and I've tweaked the tempo settings . . . but it all sounds the same. RH dominance prevails on long open rolls (32nds) . . . and, as we've seen, on the triplet rolls as well (uneven tempo).

In Smart Playback . . . the diddle notes on Layer 1 are coming back as level -63 . . .while the hidden diddle-completing notes on Layer 4 are coming at a level of 64 in the midi tool. All tweaks and changes I've tried in both layers have had no positive effect on the playback.

Ultimately . . . I don't care about the sounds. What really matters is the notes I deliver on paper. However, it would really be an asset to provide a realistic audio file to accompany the notes.

M.
[/quote]

If your using Windows and have a cheap soundcard, the wobbly rhyhms may be resulting from that...not necessarily Finale. Any idea if your audio card is running ASIO drivers?

As far as I know, Finale (as a VST host) doesn't allow you any control over soundcard latency/buffer size. Meaning, if it's trying to churn out more than your audio drivers can handle, it could result in bad rhythms. What are your audio card/driver specs?
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