Combining Finale .mp3 with VD2 .mp3

Hi,

I am sure this has been answered before, but.....

I usually save my VD2 track as an .mp3, then change my wind score sounds in finale to VST Garritan sounds (GPO bundled) and save those. I then combine those on Audacity so they automatically line up. I would love to just combine the Soft Synth sounds with my VD2 but when I do on Audacity, they NEVER EVER line up. What can I do to correct this timing issue and what could cause it? Thanks!


Joey O.
Are you using Audactiy to convert the individual WAV files from Finale to mp3 and then re-importing them into Audactiy again?

I would suggest saving the WAV file for both VDL and then GARRITAN and then import both WAV files into Audactiy - since they can only be saved as WAV files out of Finale anyway.  I would then export this as an MP3 by going to the File Menu in Audacity and choosing Export as MP3.  It seems as though that extra step in there that might be causing this?
I think that is what I have been doing, but, I will try again. Thank you so much though. Every suggestion helps. I would rather use the soft synth then the garritan right now until the GPO marching band comes out. Thanks!


Joey O.
Joey,

I've heard what you're talking about, but don't know if I have much of an answer right now. If you're wanting to use the SoftSynth sounds, maybe try doing one recording of those in Audacity (rather than ";save special";), then do a second recording of your VDL sounds, then try lining the tracks up in Audacity. Somehow I think the sync is a little ";off"; when you capture the .wav via the internal ";save audio file"; feature (same glitch seems to occur in both Finale and Sibelius). So perhaps recording all aspects via the same recording method (audacity) might help. I'm not sure if it will help, but it's worth a try.

Good luck!
Jim,

Thanks alot. I am getting a little booked for fall 07' and would like to have some ensemble recordings done by finale but it is a little tough. I will try the Audacity way, THANKS!!!!


Joey O.
In the past I ave used Bidule when doing this.  It has an ";Audio recorder"; within this and yo u can then record what is being played.  This would result in a very good recording as well without any SYNC issues using the Save Special between Midi and VST sounds.
Let's be careful as well.  The MP3 codec will pad the audio by an indeterminate amount at the beginning and end of the files; that's why mp3 can't loop like wav and ogg.  The result is you may get 0.13 pad at the beginning of one mp3, and 0.08 for another.  They're not going to line up except by accident, or very careful offset.

My suggestion is to stick to wav only until everything is mixed.  Then the final step would be compressing to mp3 if you must.
[quote author=drumcat link=topic=1586.msg7593#msg7593 date=1172737893]
Let's be careful as well.  The MP3 codec will pad the audio by an indeterminate amount at the beginning and end of the files; that's why mp3 can't loop like wav and ogg.  The result is you may get 0.13 pad at the beginning of one mp3, and 0.08 for another.  They're not going to line up except by accident, or very careful offset.

My suggestion is to stick to wav only until everything is mixed.  Then the final step would be compressing to mp3 if you must.
[/quote]

Thanks for that info! I could never figure out why I couldn't mix files down in mp3 format. And come to think of it, the only time I successfully did this was when I happened to be using two wavs!

Great website, too, by the way.
Thanks!  Ya, I found this out when I had to test all of the codecs in Audition.  I actually filed a bug against the Fraunhofer codec, but it turned out to be working how it should.  I was trying to do an inversion mix to see what it was dropping.

It's actually very interesting.  In sampling, you can get some amazing results from mixed inversions.  If you get, for example, some of the wav files produced as demos for EWQLSO, you can take the platinum version and the silver version of the same wav, and then invert the silver wav, and paste them on one another.  The result is exactly what the difference is...  so sometimes you can clearly hear the one instrument not there, or all the release trails, etc. etc.

Another fun trick is to generate a stereo wav of a sine wave - like a tone.  Then take the right channel and invert it.  When you play it, point the speakers at one another and the sound nearly disappears.  It's pretty weird.

Anyhow, it's just one of those things that I'd never have found if not for hanging around the right [s]geeks[/s] programmers.
I pretty much have no idea what you just said.

But it's all good. I'm just glad that there are people out there who DO know that stuff!

ER
Alright,

What am I doing wrong? I still save special them both as .wavs then when I combine them in Audacity they only line up for the first few measures , then it all goes to heck....


HELP....:-(


Joey O.
That's kind of what I was saying earlier in this thread. I've heard what you are talking about. But I'm not exactly sure what causes it. The non-elegant way to solve it would be to find various points in each track to snip the wave and nudge. It's kind of like eyeballing it, but if this is the method you're going to go with, it might be the best suggestion I can offer at this point. I'm not sure the sync problems have anything to do with whether or not you're recording to .wav or .mp3. I think it has to do with slight variances in sync timing on how the notation program outputs the .wav.

In Audacity, I believe you can cut a wave (in one track), and move the resulting bits around slightly to help it line up. Again, I don't know Audacity so that's about all I can offer at this point.
You should be able to cut from one track and paste into another or highlight and move tracks left or right to make them line up.  It is not the fastest way of doing it but it can be done.
Joey-

Are you using Human Playback?

I would avoid using HP for what you are doing. If you absolutely have to use HP, keep reading.....

HP effects will carry over to your audio file when created by Finale.
HP can stretch time based on the performance practices that are defined by the HP style. These tempo variations are very subtle but they will make a huge difference when trying to sync the two files. ��
In Finale 2007, you have the option to use HP effects, but turn off the randomization of tempo. Some nuance of the effect will be lost, but the audio file will have a better chance of lining up in audacity.

-To turn this off in Finale 2007, go to Playback controls>>Open 'HP Preferences'>>Select Tempo Variations>>Check the box that says 'Don't Randomize'

-If you are in Finale 2006, go to the HP prefs and set Tempo to 'No HP Effect'.


Turning off these effects will help get your files closer, but I think Jim's last suggestion will be way to go.
Along the lines of a similar topic, I was recently trying to make an MP3 of the show that I'm writing with windows XP, Finale 07, VDL2, and the freeware version of Audacity.  At first the VDL2 instruments kept playing and then missing out sometimes when I was trying to do a straight recording of everything onto one track.  I reloaded VDL2 (just the one instance that was giving me trouble) and everything else worked fine there. Now, it's just a basic one track does it all recording that I need to spend more time on balancing out the volumes and stuff, but for an easy way to do a recording sample it worked well!  Maybe this will help someone else out there.

- Jon Seale
Percussion Director College Station ISD
College Station, TX
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