Marimba's playing Cymbals

When writing for a Marimbla player in the Pit... naturally they'll have a cymbal next to them, so, is there a way to get the playback to go from Marimba to Cymbal on the same Staff? 
Exactly. Just do another staff type change, and change it to a 5-line pitched staff. That might be a good one to setup another shortcut for as well.
[quote]That might be a good one to setup another shortcut for as well.[/quote]

Done.  Thanks.

Only one more thing on this.  In Sib 4 is there a way to not have that cymbal note more than an octave above the staff?  I found some info about this in Finale but nothing for the Sibelius brethren among us.  That will make my scores kind of crazy looking!  (it seems like I used to know this...should not have had someone else write the book last year-out of practice!).

Thanks a ton, guys!

Mike
[quote author=m2mathew link=topic=1651.msg9593#msg9593 date=1186350833]

Only one more thing on this.  In Sib 4 is there a way to not have that cymbal note more than an octave above the staff?  I found some info about this in Finale but nothing for the Sibelius brethren among us.  That will make my scores kind of crazy looking!  (it seems like I used to know this...should not have had someone else write the book last year-out of practice!).

Thanks a ton, guys!

Mike
[/quote]

That's what the staff type change is for. Select the ";VDL2 Marimba Sus Cym"; about a bar before the suspended cymbal part. AFTER you've entered the staff type change, then enter the cymbal part and it will appear correctly on the staff. If you select View/Hidden Objects, you'll be able to see the bracket where the staff type change occurs so you may slide it left or right.
Jim,

I see what you are talking about.  Sometimes I have to drag the staff change box far to the left in order to get the note to appear in the staff.  When I move the box back closer again it stays the same.  I guess it needs its personal space.

Hope the machine is locking in this week!

Mike
Hey gang,

I've got a twist on this on this one.  Is there a way to have the correct cymbal mark show up in the Marimba staff (the little upside down triangle), have it play the crash, all while still keeping the 5 lines?  I am writing a part for the Marimba where there's a crash on 1 and then a run that starts on 2.  I suppose doing this with a grand staff would make it easier as I could manipulate the upper and lower staves separately but right now the way I have it set up is with 3 Marimbas with a single staff each: 2 are on treble clef and one is on bass clef.

I'm using VDL 2.5 and Sib 3.1.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
I just noticed you can drag the staff change rectangle along the measure... maybe that would work? :-\
You can change the Staff Type to be 5 lines if you prefer it that way. I realize it can be a little choppy to frequently switch between 5-line/2-line staff type changes.

Also, if you decide to upgrade to Sibelius 5, the new VDL templates use a 5-line system for all suspended cymbals.
What I started doing this year is not use the cymbal included in the Marimba sample, but instead use the concert suspended cymbal samples. That way I can assign Xylo and Vibe 1 to a 16";, Mar 1 and Vibe 2 to an 18"; and so on. I think it gives a little more realistic sound having different sized cymbals throughout my setup.
Cool.  Jim, Ralph, thanks for the feedback. :)
Sometimes I might have a run end on beat one, and the player start rolling/banging on the cymbal on beat three.  I even had the wacky idea to have mallet players have a stick in the right to hit the dome, and two mallets in the left to hit the marimba bars.  For that I just leave the staff type alone.  I export a MIDI file when I'm done writing, because I'm going to mix it in Cubase/Logic/whatever.  Then I go back and change the cymbal parts to the way I want them to look for print, because I worry about how the sheet music will look as the final step.
Yeah, I wish I knew more about midi files etc. but I don't have a huge depth of knowledge in that department.  I make recordings and sheet music for my students so I am concerned about having the music look good [b]and[/b] sound right.  I use an old audio app to ";record what you hear"; and I playback the score in sib.  Then I take the the new WAV file created from that process and rip it to MP3.  For the music I just print it to PDF and send it out that way.
MIDI is like sheet music for computers.  It tells it tempo, pitch, duration, etc.  A ";DAW"; program like Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic, gives you greater control over how things sound, and performs better too.  For example, I can see an entire snare part as one graph, and shape its dynamics (velocity) by drawing with the mouse.  The only reason more people don't use these programs more for VDL is their sheet music abilities are limited.
Hmmm.. very interesting indeed and sounds pretty cool.  One of these days (when I win the lottery and can retire from the day job?) I'll dive in deeper. :)  Thanks for the tid bit though.
I think Ted's fix (3/27/07) for marimba/vibe cymbal parts works pretty cool.  I like to have my cymbal parts above the staff and use different notes for different cymbals, so here's what I've been doing in Finale (2008) to get the marimba/vibe cymbal parts to look the way I want and get the playback correct.  I switch a lot between cymbals and keys and this works pretty well for me and gives me a lot of flexibility in controlling how the part looks.

I usually basic suspended cymbal parts as an A above the treble staff (or a Middle C above the staff if your in bass clef).  At this point it will just sound like an A, so I apply a hidden Expression Text that transposes the note up to the correct pitch for the sound I want.  For example, if I want it to be a regular suspended cymbal crash in the vibe part, I create the hidden Expression Text ";V. cr A"; then I click the Playback tab in the Text Expression Designer, select Transposition under Type, and enter 15 in the Set to Value box.  15 is the number of half-steps I need to transpose the A in order to get the crash I want.  The marimba range is different, so to get the crash I want I create ";M. cr A"; and use 22 as the transposition value.  The ";A"; in  ";M. cr A"; or ";V. cr A"; let's me know what pitch the transposition is for because, if there's an Ab or A# in the key signature, the transposition # has to increase or decrease by 1 accordingly.  I then usually change the notehead shape to a diamond with the Special Tools or with the Change Notehead Shapes plug-in.

To change the transposition back, I create a hidden Expression Text ";loco."; and set the Transposition value back to 0.  If you don't do that, the keyboard parts will sound great transposed 22 half steps!

To implement the other cymbal sounds in the Vibe and Marimba sound sets, just use an Expression Text with the correct transposition # and give it a name that helps you remember what sound it is, then you can assign a meta-tool if you want.  It sounds complicated and time consuming but it isn't.  Once you create the text, it's easy to access.

In Sibelius (4), to get the same look, I edit the Marimba and Vibe Sus. Cym. Staff Type so that it has 5 lines and the cymbal notation is above the staff so it looks seamless if it's mid-measure.  I have some parts where there's a keyboard note on 1, a crash on the & of 1, and a keyboard note on 2 and they look and play back fine.  I've found it's all in how you manipulate the blue Staff Change box and where you place it in relationship to the notes.

My apologies if this same Finale fix has already been addressed, I didn't see in any earlier posts.  If there's an easier way I can do it and have the same control over the appearance, please let me know.
That's cool, I think I was kind of on to that but not quite where you went with it.  I'll give it a try next go around. :)  (regarding the Sib fix)
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