Sibelius 5 and VDL sound problems...

Hi everyone! Okay, so I'm REALLY new to all this sibelius and vdl stuff, and even this forum (this is my first post!). I've been messing around with sibelius for a little while, and i've run into a few problems. I just bought Sibelius 5, mainly because virtual drumline was included with it. so my first question would be, should i bother getting vdl 2.5? I like all the drum sounds that sibelius 5 comes with, and i don't think i need more than that, but i've been experiencing some issues with playback ";choppiness";, and i was wondering if this could be fixed by upgrading to 2.5. I tried to follow the quickstart guide that mentions things like Midi Yoke, but does that really apply with sibelius 5 and the included vdl?

A bigger problem at hand for me is the bass drum notation. I think the bass drum order is all messed up. For instance, for the 5 bass drums, if I place notes sequentially going up the staff, the playback plays bass 5, then bass 3, then bass 4, then bass 1, and finally bass 2. Is this supposed to happen? It's really quite annoying when the top note plays the 2nd bass, etc. I was wondering if this problem was attributed to ";templates";, even though i have no idea what a template is (it just sounded important). Do you have any advice on how i can edit the notes so that they play the correct drum?

Sorry if my questions sound amateurish; like i said, i'm new to all this stuff. Hopefully I can figure some of this stuff out by playing around with it a little more, but I'm doubtful of my abilities, so I'm hoping someone responds soon with solutions. Thanks for reading!

Drew
It's not causing us problems, it's just causing us to adjust our thinking.  Once you experiment with it, Sibelius 5 is actually pretty slick.  They made some great changes.
Semantics aside it doesn't change that the learning curve seems to have gotten worse not better. There are many, many users over on the Sibelius forums having trouble understanding and adjusting.

On another note anyone else notice they've added ";percussion text"; in Sibelius 5? It appears to fuction exactly like the lyric text we are accustomed to using, however the default settings for the text are horrible and makes the stickings difficult to read. I haven't played with it enough yet to see if there are any significant differences from the standard lyric tool.
I don't think this is new. If memory serves, Sibelius 4 also included text styles for ";percussion instruments"; (shapes like brushes, coins, tambourines, etc), and ";percussion stickings."; Percussion stickings work essentially the same as lyrics, but it seems like more people I know use Lyrics rather than Percussion Stickings. Either way, if you don't like the default styles that come with Sibelius, you may always adjust them to your liking using ";Edit Text Styles.";

Regarding Sibelius 5, they are working on some significant maintenance updates that will improve things a great deal. While it may require getting used to some new methods from what were used in Sibelius 4, if it improves workflow I think it can be argued that bit of new learning up front will benefit the evolution of using VI's and notation together. I've been pretty entrenched in seeing that VDL and Sibelius 5 will make great partners, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there, and thanks for being patient.
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1957.msg9836#msg9836 date=1188411055]
I don't think this is new. If memory serves, Sibelius 4 also included text styles for ";percussion instruments"; (shapes like brushes, coins, tambourines, etc), and ";percussion stickings."; Percussion stickings work essentially the same as lyrics, but it seems like more people I know use Lyrics rather than Percussion Stickings. Either way, if you don't like the default styles that come with Sibelius, you may always adjust them to your liking using ";Edit Text Styles.";[/quote]

Yeah I definitely remember the percussion symbols, but I don't remember there being specific percussion sticking text, I could have just missed  it though. Either way, I was curious if anyone had experienced any advantage using one over the other (lyric vs. perc).

[quote]Regarding Sibelius 5, they are working on some significant maintenance updates that will improve things a great deal. While it may require getting used to some new methods from what were used in Sibelius 4, if it improves workflow I think it can be argued that bit of new learning up front will benefit the evolution of using VI's and notation together. I've been pretty entrenched in seeing that VDL and Sibelius 5 will make great partners, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there, and thanks for being patient.
[/quote]

One thing that I have been impressed with is that Sibelius seems to definitely be taking thier customers complaints/suggestions to heart. It sounds like in future updates they'll be addressing some of the complaints like allowing manual channel assignments and such again.
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1957.msg9836#msg9836 date=1188411055]
I've been pretty entrenched in seeing that VDL and Sibelius 5 will make great partners, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel.[/quote]

Reason 1,367,375 Jim ROCKS!!!

Thanks Jim!
I see there is a fix on the horizon and that makes me happy.

Maybe someone could help me out with my problem?

When I start a new score->drum corps battery->house style unchanged->time signature unchanged->key signature unchanged->copyright information filled out I have an issue after this.

If I go to Playback Devices and select ";Virtual Drumline 2.5";, go to enter notes I get ";File was not found.  Please check if library is installed correctly";

Also if I choose to use ";Sibelius Essentials"; instead of ";Virtual Drumline 2.5"; and open KontaktPlayer and choose ";VDL Snareline Manual";, ";VDL Tenor Line Manual";, and ";VDL Bass Line Manual";, then I go to input some notes on the staff I get the same error as above, ";File was not found.  Please check if library is installed correctly";  This also happens when I want to playback what I have arranged.

Am I limited to auto?  I ask this because you cannot access all the different sounds in auto, but for some odd reason manual doesn't work for me.

Is this a limitation to the VLD 2.5 that came with Sibelius 5, or is it because of the messed up template Sibelius shipped with version 5.

Just looking for some answers.

Thanks,

Adam

System Specs

AMD Athlon 60 X2 AM2 4000+
MSI K9N Neo-F mobo
2GB PC2-5300 RAM
300GB Seagate SATA2 HD
Creative Audigy 4 sound card
ATI Radeon X1950 256MB vid card
Windows XP Pro w/SP2
Sibelius 5.0 w/included VLD 2.5
[quote author=PureRockFury link=topic=1957.msg9851#msg9851 date=1188509324]
I ask this because you cannot access all the different sounds in auto, but for some odd reason manual doesn't work for me.

Is this a limitation to the VLD 2.5 that came with Sibelius 5, or is it because of the messed up template Sibelius shipped with version 5.
[/quote]

Adam

I believe that the main problem you are having is that the ";[i]messed up template[/i]"; instrument you are trying to use has not had the mapping completed. And as such, Sibelius does not know where to find the correct patch to load into Kontakt Player 2.

The unbelievable people at Tapspace and Sibelius are working diligently on the 'template' that will be for the newest version of Sibelius. Once it is done, I think that everyone is going to really like the functionality.

In the meantime, please review what I said earlier in this thread about making sure to ";Do your homework."; Even when the template is done, you are still going to have to know how to use it.

Also review this post:�� [url]https://www.tapspace.com/forums/index.php?topic=1410.0[/url]

Late
Hugh
I know how to use templates.  After downloading the file that Jim said should fix some issues, well it didn't.  It IS installed correctly too.  The bass drums are still all over the place, not all sounds are available.

Here is a list of unavailable sounds.

Bass Drum 4
Bass Unison (instead of having to write all 5 out)
Bass buzz
Tenors rimshots spocks through to drum 4
buzzes from spocks to drum 4
snare rimshots and pings
snare buzzes
and many more...

Am I the only one that has this problem?  When I write them out where they should be on the staff I get zero sounds.  When I write the bass drums down the spaces I get bass 1 on E, bass 2 on G (1 space above the staff), 3rd on A, 4th doesn't even make a sound instead I get some weird choked flat 3rd bass, and bass 5 in F where it should be.  This makes absolutely zero sense.

Can the VLD 2.5 that came with Sibelius used with newer versions of Finale?  At least I know that program works properly, however I have had to use free versions of soundfonts until now, which were mapped properly.
[quote author=PureRockFury link=topic=1957.msg9855#msg9855 date=1188514965]
After downloading the file that Jim said should fix some issues, well it didn't. It IS installed correctly too.

Am I the only one that has this problem? When I write them out where they should be on the staff I get zero sounds. When I write the bass drums down the spaces I get bass 1 on E, bass 2 on G (1 space above the staff), 3rd on A, 4th doesn't even make a sound instead I get some weird choked flat 3rd bass, and bass 5 in F where it should be. This makes absolutely zero sense.
[/quote]

Adam

I am going to guess the file that Jim wanted you to download was an updated Sound Set off of the Sibelius web site (you didn't say which file). If that is the case, that won't fix it. The problem is still with the way the ";instrument"; you are using is mapped, or in this case, not mapped. It doesn't take much in the instrument mapping to be wrong for the whole thing to not function properly, if at all. The instrument needs to ";communicate"; with the sound set in order to get the results you want. Oh, and if you are trying to use the template that was made for Sib 4, that won't work either, for the reason stated above. (A fix to this is also in the works.)

While you are patiently waiting for the VDL 2.5 Sib 5 template to be finished, feel free to learn how to do some mapping of your own. Read the relavent topics in your Sibelius Reference. Then, see if you can properly map the Sibelius Essentials 'Marching Snare Drums'. If you don't want to mess with it, that's OK too.

As Jim said in this thread earlier, [i]";Indeed this is a (large) work in progress, but we're getting closer. Thanks again for everyone's patience.";[/i]

Late
Hugh
[quote author=PureRockFury link=topic=1957.msg9855#msg9855 date=1188514965]
I know how to use templates.�� After downloading the file that Jim said should fix some issues, well it didn't.�� [/quote]

I'll try to simplify a bit. The file you downloaded is not a template, it is an updated sound set. We DO NOT have a working full template for Sibelius 5 yet. Therefore all the sounds you have listed will not work. The template that comes with Sibelius 5 is designed only to work with the basic VDL sounds�� that are included with Sibelius not the full VDL 2.5 library. The template that came with Sibelius also has some bugs in it, like bass drums playing on the wrong line.

Tapspace will be releasing the full template for VDL 2.5 soon, in the meantime we can only be patient, or you can work on a template for your own use.

Hope that helps with the confusion.
I would also like to add (even though it has been stated many times before)...that this forum is one of the most intelligent, mature, ";b.s."; free percussion forums you will find on the internet.  So users should be careful how they ask/reply to questions.  We have cultivated a positive atmosphere that is conducive to learning, sharing valuable information, etc., and it's best to keep it that way.  Any answer or reply from a knowledgeable user (or admin) is never meant to be demeaning or insulting.  Answers/replies are kept concise for efficiency all-around.

Be respectful and it will be reciprocated. :)

The [b][i]Sibelius 5 Template issue[/i][/b] is out of our hands at the moment...but rest assured:  with all the customers that have purchased VDL 2.5 and Sibelius 5, both companies know it's in their best interest to resolve the issue ASAP.  Patience is a virtue...
Hey all,

The following link will take you to a small write-up I did on how to do drum mappings in Sib 5:

[url]http://members.cox.net/oldhands101/pdfs/snippet.pdf[/url]


I hope this helps.


Late
Hugh
Posted this in the wrong topic - reposting....

While we're waiting for the Sib 5 template, is there a way to get the nice sounds that come with it to work in Sib 4?  I tried loading them into my VDL 2.5 Kontakt Player 2, but I got a license error.  Any help would be great to get nicer sounds until the Sib 5 template is available.
The sounds that come included with Sibelius 5 are a collection called [i]Sibelius Sounds Essentials.[/i] These sounds will only be active and available when you're running them via Kontakt Player 2 within Sibelius 5. As a side note, Kontakt Player 2 is the same Kontakt Player 2 that you'll use for all your KP2 libraries. So there isn't actually a VDL 2.5 Kontakt Player 2 and a Sibelius 5 Kontakt Player 2. KP2 is the same player in either scenario. It'll just activate [i]Essentials[/i] if you're running it within Sibelius 5.

If you're one of the several who have upgraded to Sibelius 5, you may contact Sibelius to ensure that your former version of Sibelius 4 can be reactivated so you may work with VDL 2.5 that way in the meantime.
So is there any way I can make the bass line notes as they should be without waiting for the template? Or is the template the only way?
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