Battery Roll Problem

Hello friends!

    I have searched for an answer to this problem but to no avail...

I recently installed sib 5.1, vdl 2.5, and the most recent (12/17/07) update of the template
I have also installed the latest updates from the service center.

I followed all the video tutorials to set up everything.

I open the template, take out slapsticks :) and add a snare and marimba. On the snare I input a quarter note with 3 slashes and on the marimba (in the next measure) input the same thing.

When I hit play, the snare tries to play the sample like 50 times instead of the 32nd notes i'm used to hearing with sib 4. The marimba plays the sampled roll beautifully.

I tried this on the other battery instruments and they too try to play faster than Vern Johnson.

I did see this post...
https://www.tapspace.com/forums/index.php?topic=2123.0
and my settings look like the picture shown. So I'm lost as to what the problem is.

Oh yea, one slash works as it should, but two or three and I get the machine gun effect.


*************UPDATE****************
Years later, I found the answer

Ok in the default Sib template playback dictionary -> articulations
";8 tremelos"; is set to ";Subdivide 8 times";

In the tapspace Templates it is set to ";unmeasured";

I just had to change it to subdivide again!!!
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=2175.msg11244#msg11244 date=1198111266]
Oh, now you've done it mister right-hand. We'll need to break you of that habit pronto!
[/quote]

He He. Ok I should also mention that I'm a matched player :) and my R and L sound a lot more similar in tone than the the VDL2 R and L :) Especially when jamming out with my awesome Cooperman drums sticks :)
Oh, now you've done it mister right-hand. We'll need to break you of that habit pronto!
Thanks guys!

�� �� ��I should mention that I usually have the rolls play back with just the right hand, i know it's not as realistic as making VDL alternate the stickings, but I like it :)��

I suppose I'll have to convert to just writing in each diddle where I want it. Unless, there is some way I can make a macro that will automatically enter what Huge described. A click of a button and all of the hidden notes would be put in place etc. But then again, I would have to do it for every instrument and that would be a pain :)

I suppose I'll just have to change my style slightly. The benefits of soundworld's ability to play back articulations based on samples far far far outweigh notating a few more diddles :) I notated a small marimba chorale today and almost cried at the simplicity of the input and playback in sib5. Thanks goes to you two and tapspace!!!!
Charlie - as you've already discovered, the single slash notation works correctly and I thought I'd chime in with the reasoning behind it. Let's say you're trying to notate a 9-stroke roll. Traditionally, this would be written as you described. A perfectly legit way of doing it. The problem when it comes to VDL, is that Sibelius is doing two things. 1) It's determining the base note (pitch), then if there if there are slashes on it, it's formulating a series of notes to play it as the correct amount of tremolo attacks (quarter note with 2 slashes gets 4 strikes, quarter note with 3 slashes gets 8 strikes). But it can only devise which pitch to repeat these strokes on based on the one midi pitch (the base note) that was entered. I don't know that there'd be a way for Sibelius to know how to make that single note play back like rr, ll, rr, ll. Which is why many people write in ";check pattern mode. It allows you to control the stickings, (in this case RLRL), then by placing the slash, does the math (RR, LL, RR, LL). This would get more complicated on tenors and basses as well since their RH/LH hits span farther due to having more drums.

The difference here (as opposed to marimbas), is that there are no sampled open stroke rolls for battery instruments. The sampled marimba rolls aren't tempo dependent, so there's no math involved with those. As far as the MIDI data is concerned it's just one sustained pitch. It just happens to be playing the sampled roll.

Since battery open roll spacing [i]is[/i] tempo-dependent, in theory, that would mean every length roll, at every tempo (not to mention variances) would have had to be recorded. The possibilities are practically infinite. So instead, allowing Sibelius to create the open roll with a series of single strokes on the appropriate hands, works beautifully. With the one exception that it won't work without the check pattern of the roll being entered as its base.

One workaround (while a little bit of a pain) would be to write the check pattern version in one voice, hide it, then write the shorthand version (quarter with 3 slashes) in another voice, and then make it not playable by unselecting the ";play on pass 1"; box. That way you'd have both things going on.

Anyway - just wanted to provide the logic behind the check pattern style notation that so many people are using. In part, I guess we can thank VDL for that! :-[
I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that my idea did not work. And actually, you may not find the good news to be all that whoopy either.

Depending on how bad you want to have a quarter note with 3 slashes on it, you can do something similar as to what I did in the picture below. You can't see it, but the beat 2 quarter note is selected and in the Properties Playback tab I have unchecked the first Play on pass box. This will allow the tremolo marking to be in the score but not playback. The greyed out notes are that of what you have already mentioned, only hidden (in voice three) - this will playback the way you want.

�� �� �� [img]http://members.cox.net/oldhands101/pics/poet.jpg[/img]

I think that this is more work than I would like to have to do, but you can make up your own mind as to what you prefer.


[quote author=perpetualpoet link=topic=2175.msg11238#msg11238 date=1198105019]
Thanks!!!

I appreciate the time and effort to help me out on this!

I've noticed that many marching percussion arrangers write out every diddle (like 4 16ths, each with one slash). This method plays back and works correctly in the new template. But in my writing style a quarter note with 3 slashes always means 8 notes, and if I want a triplet/quintuplet/etc roll, THEN I write out each diddle on each note. I'm hoping to keep my current system, but if I need to start spelling rolls out more clearly due to soundworld, then I will.
[/quote]

Excellent! I think that you will find out that ";it's not that bad.";
And yes, the SoundWorld format may not give you much choice in the matter anyway. :(






Thanks!!!

I appreciate the time and effort to help me out on this!

I've noticed that many marching percussion arrangers write out every diddle (like 4 16ths, each with one slash). This method plays back and works correctly in the new template. But in my writing style a quarter note with 3 slashes always means 8 notes, and if I want a triplet/quintuplet/etc roll, THEN I write out each diddle on each note. I'm hoping to keep my current system, but if I need to start spelling rolls out more clearly due to soundworld, then I will.
I have an idea on how this can work. Give me a bit of time to set it up and test it.

Allow me to clarify.

In sib. 4, if I wrote a quarter with 3 slashes, the marching snare would play back 8 notes. I like it this way.

In sib. 5's sound world, it's possible to get marimba etc. to play back the correct sampled rolls just by putting 3 slashes on it, which is great!�� but it seems that it's sacrifices my snare interp.

This is the default setting. My marimba rolls trigger fine, but my snare open rolls (with 3 slashes) trigger a million times
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/charlienesmith/Picture2.png[/img]

Under these settings, my snare plays back fine, but my marimba rolls don't trigger correctly
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/charlienesmith/Picture1.png[/img]
I'm looking for an open roll. (like a quarter with 3 slashes)  a ";z"; triggers the buzz roll
All of the rolls in the battery instruments have the ";Z"; articulation assigned to them, not the 2/3 slash tremolos. See page 29 etcetera of the Readme.

[s]If you would like to have the use of tremolo markings instead, feel free to do some customizing in the instrument mappings. Refer to the Readme for a couple of hints on how to do this (p.73).[/s]

Hugh


Edit:�� This won't work, see following posts.

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