VDL2 Vibraphone

I have a vibraphone loaded on the VDL2.5 Template with Kontakt player 2. It sounds good now but how do I get the pedal to work right with it? I looked at the playback dictionary that came with VDL2.5 template but it suggests me putting ctrl+t and type ";ped up"; or ";ped down"; every time I want to get that sound, I have passages where that is just to much wording and I would like to find a way to use an actual Ped. marking with a line under it to specify where to pedal or sustain and when to stop and also have that reflected in play back.

Anyone know how to do that? There is a picture of it like that on page 14 of the VDL2.5 Template guide. I would like to find out how to make it look like pedal markings for the player instead of saying a lot of words.
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=2201.msg20302#msg20302 date=1288215612]
[quote author=sonordrum link=topic=2201.msg20301#msg20301 date=1288214920]
can you tell me which Vibraphone specifically you're using in the demo.  This is only 1/2 working for me right now.
thanks!!
Kent
[/quote]

Sure thing. I believe it was [b]Vibes Med (PED)[/b]. I guess my main point was how the [i]PED[/i] vibraphones behave much differently in this regard than the [i]MW[/i] vibraphones.
[/quote]

This one works much better for me now using this method.  Thanks Jim!
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=2201.msg20186#msg20186 date=1285368606]
The control over sustain length will vary depending on whether you're using the PED vibes or the MW vibes.

[b]If you're using the MW vibes[/b], be forewarned that using pedal controllers in your score will cause them to ring past the point at which the pedal marking releases (longer or shorter depending on the setting of the release knob). That said, if you're using MW vibes, it's probably best to either A) not use pedal markings that invoke the sustain pedal controller (CC64), or B) if using pedal markings, be sure to deactivate their playback characteristics so they aren't causing the pedal to give you misleading results. If you want to be really detailed with pedal markings in the score, it may be best to use the PED vibes from VDL. It sounds like this is the direction you've steered towards.

[b]If you're using the PED vibes[/b], and want a really quick canceling of the sustained sound upon the ";pedal-up"; message, you should hear pretty drastic results if you turn the release knob all the way down. My recommendation would be to aim toward putting the release knob around 70.

Also - keep in mind that on the pedal vibes, when activating sustained samples, the duration of the sustain is based on two things - the duration of the notes written (note on/note off), as well as the duration of the CC64 (sustain pedal) on/off message. This sort of pedal control (for playback) can be a bit clumsy when doing it in a notation program. You'll have much finer control over it in a DAW.

To better illustrate some of this, I've just posted a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x9tVKZnAXI]demo video[/url].


[/quote]

Aye, that works much better for what I want. Only problem is, I've discovered that my soft mallet PED vibes are always dry.. I've tried the Pedal Expression, the various Pedal Smart Shapes, and even the MIDI tool (which I've found to be the most accurate, since the Finale Smart Shapes like the one in the video don't work right for crap), but I can't get them to sustain.
[quote author=sonordrum link=topic=2201.msg20301#msg20301 date=1288214920]
can you tell me which Vibraphone specifically you're using in the demo.  This is only 1/2 working for me right now.
thanks!!
Kent
[/quote]

Sure thing. I believe it was [b]Vibes Med (PED)[/b]. I guess my main point was how the [i]PED[/i] vibraphones behave much differently in this regard than the [i]MW[/i] vibraphones.
can you tell me which Vibraphone specifically you're using in the demo.  This is only 1/2 working for me right now.
thanks!!
Kent

[/quote]


So if using PED Vibes in Logic, I suggest you ensure the note durations aren't too long, and pedal markings are placed accordingly. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcyIWT01yyw]Here's a video that illustrates how this would look in Logic's piano roll.[/url]
[/quote]

great video, this pushes me into another mindset.  Thanks, I'll certainly give this some attention!!
[quote author=sonordrum link=topic=2201.msg20235#msg20235 date=1286400789]
on the subject, I'm also dealing with the vibe sustain issue but with using Logic 9 the last 2 days specifically.  I've loaded many versions of the vibes and checked the release knob (at 127) and it's either FULL sustain all the time of VERY staccato.  Now on the Logic piano roll it's showing varying degrees of note length and all, just not sure what I'm missing.  I don't think it's just VDL2 as I have the Donnie Christian library too in Kontak2 & I run into the same issues.  Just with vibes though....  sad face.


[/quote]

I've been working on numerous recordings lately for some upcoming Tapspace concert releases that specifically apply to this topic. Mainly, it takes a slightly different mindset from a notational mode of thinking, which can be a little confusing at first, but I'll do my best to explain.

There are two primary modes of samples used in the Vibes PED instruments ��� vibes recorded with the bars ringing, and vibes recorded with the bars completely dampened. When working in a MIDI environment like Logic, when the sustain pedal is up (i.e. value = 0), the dampened vibes play back. When the sustain pedal is down (value = 127), the ringing vibes will playback.

The real power of the ";PED"; vibes, however, comes in that you can control them a little more like a live player would, to kill the sustain of previously struck notes. As discussed previously, the quickness at which the sustain is killed depends on the setting of the release knob and it seems that somewhere around 70 is a pretty good general setting.

The thing that requires an extra moment of thought is [b]note duration[/b]. Particularly if you've imported a MIDI file from Sibelius or Finale where a series of quarter notes or eighth notes (for example) will be held for their full durations. In the world of ";PED"; vibes, note length is more a function of the pedal rather than the ";note on/off"; messages. So if you're notes are too long (in the piano roll), anything you do with the pedaling will be overruled by the longer note durations.

So if using PED Vibes in Logic, I suggest you ensure the note durations aren't too long, and pedal markings are placed accordingly. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcyIWT01yyw]Here's a video that illustrates how this would look in Logic's piano roll.[/url]
on the subject, I'm also dealing with the vibe sustain issue but with using Logic 9 the last 2 days specifically.  I've loaded many versions of the vibes and checked the release knob (at 127) and it's either FULL sustain all the time of VERY staccato.  Now on the Logic piano roll it's showing varying degrees of note length and all, just not sure what I'm missing.  I don't think it's just VDL2 as I have the Donnie Christian library too in Kontak2 & I run into the same issues.  Just with vibes though....  sad face.

The control over sustain length will vary depending on whether you're using the PED vibes or the MW vibes.

[b]If you're using the MW vibes[/b], be forewarned that using pedal controllers in your score will cause them to ring past the point at which the pedal marking releases (longer or shorter depending on the setting of the release knob). That said, if you're using MW vibes, it's probably best to either A) not use pedal markings that invoke the sustain pedal controller (CC64), or B) if using pedal markings, be sure to deactivate their playback characteristics so they aren't causing the pedal to give you misleading results. If you want to be really detailed with pedal markings in the score, it may be best to use the PED vibes from VDL. It sounds like this is the direction you've steered towards.

[b]If you're using the PED vibes[/b], and want a really quick canceling of the sustained sound upon the ";pedal-up"; message, you should hear pretty drastic results if you turn the release knob all the way down. My recommendation would be to aim toward putting the release knob around 70.

Also - keep in mind that on the pedal vibes, when activating sustained samples, the duration of the sustain is based on two things - the duration of the notes written (note on/note off), as well as the duration of the CC64 (sustain pedal) on/off message. This sort of pedal control (for playback) can be a bit clumsy when doing it in a notation program. You'll have much finer control over it in a DAW.

To better illustrate some of this, I've just posted a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x9tVKZnAXI]demo video[/url].

No, the release knob trick had no effect that I can tell. :/


Okay, I'm messing around with the PED vibes that work on CC64, because the modwheel vibe sustained notes bleed through the dry notes even though the dry notes themselves play dry. Does that make any sense?

It's working pretty well thus far, though I have a couple issues. How would I clear the pedal quickly, like if I had 4 quarter note chords that I want to each have their own pedal? I tried putting in expressions to raise and lower the pedal on the same note, but all that did was keep the pedal down through the whole passage.

Also, sustained accents are quite a bit softer than dampened accents. I guess I'll probably have to live with that.
[quote author=jonathancarr link=topic=2201.msg20146#msg20146 date=1284496548]
I'm having the same issues as all of these guys, and I looked over the possible solutions and I think I can figure it out, but the  Garritan Jazz Vibes KS sample that came with my copy of Finale was set up to where the notes would sustain according to the note value, unless specifically notated to let ring. Is there a way to set the VDL vibes this way?


I would just use the Garritan samples, but I'd like to make use of the varying mallet choices.
[/quote]

Jonathan,

In most cases I think the VDL Vibes should work well for what you're wanting, but you'll have to turn the release knob all the way down to zero. This will make it so that when a note finishes being held at its full value, it won't continue to sustain the way it does by default when you load the patch.

You can either manually move the release knob all the way down, or enter a controller change into your Finale score. The release knob is ";Continuous Controller 20";, and you'd set it to a value of 0 (zero).

Let me know if this fits the bill.
I'm having the same issues as all of these guys, and I looked over the possible solutions and I think I can figure it out, but the  Garritan Jazz Vibes KS sample that came with my copy of Finale was set up to where the notes would sustain according to the note value, unless specifically notated to let ring. Is there a way to set the VDL vibes this way?


I would just use the Garritan samples, but I'd like to make use of the varying mallet choices.
On pages 41, 42, and 43 of your VDL 2.5 User Guide.
Wow, that explains a lot. That's great! Thanks.

For future reference where do I go to learn all the codes for these ~C29,2 things. So I can know what number controls what?
I'm having technical difficulties here trying to configure the attachments feature for the forum.

Instead, please download the file (it's a Sibelius 5.1 file embedded in a .zip) at [b][url=https://www.tapspace.com/images/forumimages/VibeExample.zip]this location[/url].[/b]
Yea, it's cool.
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