Instrument Banks & Finale 2008

I’ve done a couple of searches and I might have missed this completely.  I’m using Finale 08, VDL 2.5.1, and the correct Finale template.  I’m still learning the whole Instrument Bank thing so I might have missed something while trying to set this up. 

Since I’m still learning this part of VDL, I just went down the template and loaded the instruments into the Kontakt Player to try it out.  I’ve loaded SnareLite, TenorLite, BassDrumLite, and Cymbals into my first 4 slots.  Everything plays back correctly.  I’m trying to get an Instrument Bank with the Glockenspiel staff on the template.  I’ve clicked on the Banks and drug the Empty Banks to the rack.  I then drug over the Glockenspiel Brass, Xylo Lite, and Combo B to Slots 1-3. 

When I go back to the entry screen for Finale, I can use my MIDI keyboard to enter and hear all of the battery sounds while I input notes.  When I press the MIDI keyboard while on the Glockenspiel staff, I hear nothing.  I can input notes, but nothing is played back while I’m doing it.  If I go to the Expressions menu and add the Text Program Change, everything will playback correctly when I hit play in Finale. 

Is there a way to have it playback as I input notes for a staff that is set as an instrument bank?  I’m just new to the instrument banks and still trying to learn about it. 

Thanks for any help!
Kevin

You would actually  have to setup a new Staff Style to change the Staff Type for that specific area by going to STAFF MENU -->DEFINE STAFF STYLES.  You would then need to define this with a specific type of percussion Map by going to NOTATION SYLE: PERCUSSION and then clicking SELECT.  You would then see your VDL Maps here and you can choose whichever one you need for that style and then click OK.  You would then have to APPLY the staff style to that certain area after you define it by highlighting the area and then going to STAFF -->APPLY STAFF STYLES and then choosing the one you need.
Got it!�� Thanks for the help with getting that setup.�� Like you said, it will be great once I get all of the VDL Multis saved and the expressions set as a library.�� That will be a HUGE time saver!��

I'm still having the issue with notation though once I've switched to a new instrument in the bank.�� It takes the staff style and mapping of the first instrument in the bank.�� I need it to change to the mapping & notation for the instrument I switch to in the bank.�� If you can help me fix that then I should be in great shape for a while!!!

[quote author=Kevin Suiter link=topic=2247.msg11780#msg11780 date=1200755833]
Coach - I think I have it figured out.�� You just have to go to the Instrument List, then change the patch in the Instrument Definition each time you are playing back a new program change.�� You have to do this anytime you want to hear one of your other instruments from the bank.�� And the sounds from that bank apply until you change them again in the Instrument Definition.�� This is to hear it when inputting the notes into the score.�� Then you still enter the Text Expression to make playback correct.�� All of that is correct so far, right?��

I guess my next question is how do I correct the notation once I make these program changes?�� Right now, it's notating everything as if it is still in the Glockenspiel staff.�� When I do a program change to Combo B, how do I get that to notate correctly in a specific measure?�� I'm assuming it's probably within the Staff tool.

Thanks again....I think I'm almost there!
[/quote]

Yes this is exactly what I was mentioning - except, if the instrument that you are defining is the first slot in the bank, you will not have to make an expression to ";make"; it play the sound, since the Instrument Definition is doing that already.�� Any other portions of the score accessing other sounds in that same bank, but in a different slot, will need to have the TEXT EXPRESSION/PATCH CHANGE to play back correct, but real time note entry playback will not be the sound associated with the new change, unless you use a different Layer and change the Instrument Definition for that Layer.�� There are lots of possibilities.

Hope that clarifies a bit.  Its a  bit to get your head around at first as there are lots of settings to make happen, but when you get all your patch changes set and you save your VDL Multis, you can then go to the FILE MENU -->SAVE LIBRARY and then save all your TEXT EXPRESSIONS (patch changes) as a library for loading into other documents.  Then - you do not have to make them again unless something changes.
Coach - I think I have it figured out.�� You just have to go to the Instrument List, then change the patch in the Instrument Definition each time you are playing back a new program change.�� You have to do this anytime you want to hear one of your other instruments from the bank.�� And the sounds from that bank apply until you change them again in the Instrument Definition.�� This is to hear it when inputting the notes into the score.�� Then you still enter the Text Expression to make playback correct.�� All of that is correct so far, right?��

I guess my next question is how do I correct the notation once I make these program changes?�� Right now, it's notating everything as if it is still in the Glockenspiel staff.�� When I do a program change to Combo B, how do I get that to notate correctly in a specific measure?�� I'm assuming it's probably within the Staff tool.

Thanks again....I think I'm almost there!
That would be great if you could explain the process of how you get your instruments banks setup and playing through the instrument list.�� That's exactly what I was needing to know.��

Thanks!
No.�� It will still work the same way.�� I miss understood your explanation.�� Yeah, you will need to set up the Program change/Patch in the Instrument Defenition to hear the playback in note entry.  I use instrument banks all the time and I am able to hear Note Entry.  You just have to define it in the Instrument List.  I can clarify if you would like.  Let me know.
I tried turning off the Transposition, but it didn't change anything.��

I think I might have found the answer after searching the forum again last night.

[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=1174.msg5007#msg5007 date=1150527673]
If you want to hear the other programs (aka patches or instruments) from a certain bank during playback, you need to insert a patch change in Finale (either with the midi tool, or as a playback option attached to a text item). You won't hear the other instruments from a bank play while you are inputting notes unless you alter the patch number in the instrument list. Probalby not something you want to keep altering while you work. If you've inserted the patch changes properly, you'll still hear the bank switch instruments during normal playback.
[/quote]

This is an older message from 2006 and the person Jim was helping was using it with the full version of Kontakt, but I'm assuming this would be the same case.�� It plays the patch changes properly during normal playback, but I don't hear anything while inputting notes for my instrument banks.

Again, since this was from an older message I didn't know if anything has changed with newer versions.�� Is there any changes in Finale 2008 or the Kontakt Player that solved this problem?�� It would just be much easier to hear what I was inputting while working with instruments banks.��


Kevin-

Try turning off the Transposition for that staff in the Staff Attributes and then entering the notes.  It sounds like this is an issue where the entry method is not taking the transposition  into effect correctly.

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