http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=5a8c68de-ec2a-4fd7-b816-3efe0a8e7de1

There is is if you haven't read the news yet.

Well, that was interesting. George hopkins can't get strings and woodwinds on the field, so he's going to put them there electronically, then he's going to reason that we should just let woodwinds and strings on the field. Then we have summer marching band....

I actually read a post a loooong time ago that predicted that this would happen.

I'm not sure if i agree with the changes or not persay, but then again, everyone threw a hissy fit when they let pit percussion be part of DCI and I personally enjoyed the benefits of that ruling :) (the same goes true for asymmetrical drill, valves, Bb instruments, etc.) So who knows. All things evolve and without DCI's evolution it would still have a very small cult like following. Perhaps some people want it to stay that way :) I would like to see it go a little more mainstream (although I think <insert channel here> does an awful job of airing finals every year. More then 2 minutes of each show would be nice, as well as treating it like an art instead of  a sport....)

As far as the brass amplification, I've seen a lot of colleges do this very very poorly. I'm not sure if it was bad mics, amps, mixers, or just a lack of knowledge, but they somehow managed to totally destroy the sound quality of the instrument. Hopefully since we've been playing around with pit/voice amplification since 2004, this won't be as big of a problem for the next DCI season.

anyhow, just my 2 cents

At what point can you not call it [i][u]Drum and Bugle[/u] Corps[/i] anymore?

[quote author=chznvrt link=topic=2293.msg12054#msg12054 date=1202468435]
At what point can you not call it [i][u]Drum and Bugle[/u] Corps[/i] anymore?
[/quote]

True. We are on our way from DCI to BCI, for better or worse.

[quote author=perpetualpoet link=topic=2293.msg12053#msg12053 date=1202464236]
I would like to see it go a little more mainstream (although I think <insert channel here> does an awful job of airing finals every year. More then 2 minutes of each show would be nice, as well as treating it like an art instead of�� a sport....)[/quote]

In the December, 2007 issue of Drum Corps World, Dan Acheson (Executive Director for DCI) was quoted that DCI is discontinuing its involvement with ESPN2 since DCI is having some major financial issues.�� I don't have the copy in front of me but it has more info in it about the health of the activity.

I too would like to see a more mainstream exposure of the real Drum corps activity, but after I read the article I felt a little down.

It's [i]possible[/i] to implement electronics well... but most groups won't. 

It's going to be the next fad, like having someone in the pit talking over everything, even though you can't understand what they're saying, and it distracts from the music, and their voice sounds silly because they were chosen because they were the only player worth sacrificing...

Regarding DCI financial issues: any activity that can fill large stadiums without having to pay the performers shouldn't be having problems with money.  It sounds like a major management problem.  Wasn't DCI Finals the highest show in the ratings on ESPN2?  These are the same people who try to sell DVDs for $98. 

I agree Jesse that there should be money available.�� According to that same article (DCW Vol 36, No. 15, Dec., 2007) DCI estimates that more than 400,000 people attended the 136 sanctioned shows which includes the 50,000 tickets sold for the week of championships in Pasadena; the most people inattendance since 1990.�� This was also the first time since DCI began that fewer than 50 corps competed (only 48).�� Also, it was announced that Southwind would not take the field in 2008.

I'm not in the loop so to speak, but I have a strong interest in the activity since one of my sons has expressed an interest in marching after high school.�� I am what I am because of the influence and time spent involved with drum corps.�� No regrets and I learned alot about my self as well as about music, etc.�� I just hope that changes and increasing costs of operation don't diminish it into the history books.

Well, what I can say (and won't on the planet) is that it's a fact that ESPN2 is charging SIGNIFICANTLY more money for airtime than they were 2 years ago.  While I might not agree with electronics in any way, shape, or form, it's strangely a different issue.  It would cost DCI hundreds of thousands more to broadcast 2008 on ESPN2 than it has in their prior contracts.

Let's also remember that of those 136 events, DCI only retains the money to about 12/year.  90% are local shows, and corps simply get paid for their appearances, if they're WC. 

The rules, as laid out, are very ambiguous.  I really hope that between now and 2009, the rule for electronics gets much more codified than it is now.

I'm not really sure how the financial situation works so maybe some of you could help clarify things.

Is it true that the higher a corps places, the more money it receives from DCI? I wasn't really aware that corps got money from DCI, I thought they were all independently funded, but I heard a friend mention something to that effect a few years back.

If this is true, how much money are we talking about?

As a side note, i'm sure gas prices are ripping corps to pieces. I'll try to to hop on my high horse, but gas and oil companies are reporting record sales in the last 3 years, yet our prices keep going up......  :(  I always thought that gas prices were based on supply and demand and foreign policy. SO what is the deal there? Greedy white people rule american economics and DCI (and the rest of us) pay the price.

It used to be the case, but now all WC corps get paid the same per appearance.  About $3000/show.  Corps are paid by the show sponsors, not DCI.  DCI pays out profits on their shows, including Finals, if they are profitable.  It's a co-op if you will.

Gas is expensive, but should easily be offset by the increase in members.  15 more kids' tour fees are way more than the difference in gas & food.

I don't have the room to talk about gas prices here, but it's pretty clear that it's not market supply & demand.  OPEC sets the supply, and it's never at full capacity.  If you want to know where the problem lies, take a look at the government, and the Texan in the White House.  Take a look at where his sidekick worked before he was VP.  The old saying for problem solving applies here...  ";follow the money";.

At the same time, drum corps caravans get about 1 mile per gallon for each corps.  So if gas goes up $1, it's just $10-12k.  It's significant, but 15 kids at 2k a head is $30k a year.  That's why it went to 150.

I agree with you drumcat.  A standardization or more clearly defined guidelines for the use of electronics would appear to be absolutely essential.  If that comes to fruition, then it will be up to the creative staff of each corps to use some musical judgement as to how their group performs musically using electronics.  First time use by most groups probably will be overdone and detract from the traditional brass and percussion performance.  As you said drumcat, without some type of codification, it will be an unmusical free-for-all.

Gas prices might not hurt top 12 Div 1, but most corps are struggling to maintain a smaller membership and adding bodies to offset costs isn't possible.   

...and are some corps really charging 2k for dues now?!

And when drumcat says ";follow the money"; you can certainly see who's profiting.

Here's Cheney's Haliburton since the war:

[img]http://img.skitch.com/20080217-ed48j233m2f32cgg1jwqn5gmk9.jpg[/img]

Exxon Mobile (or any other oil company)

[img]http://img.skitch.com/20080217-t8wf4qac8arqw897se8dbfrpsb.jpg[/img]

Back on topic- I'm sure some corps will use electronics effectively, and some will overuse it.  I'm against it because I don't think it will add anything, and is merely a change for the sake of change.  I'm pro-amplification of the pit because of balance reasons, but I don't like the idea of adding a synth sound... or worse... a DJ.

As i mentioned earlier, there are a few people out there that think that Hopkins push for Electronics is just a way to get a foot in the door to allow woodwinds and strings into DCI. This is the only logical way to do so. Put it there electronically, then reason that we may as well have real people playing instead of the samples. I'm not sure if this was his aim, but time will tell. Although, I think electronics got a unanimous vote so perhaps it really is what the activity (writers) wants.


As far as tour fees, when I marched Crossmen in 04 I think I payed around 2,200 for dues. Cadets were around 2,600 I believe. Prices may have gone up since then.

[quote author=J Mattson link=topic=2293.msg12151#msg12151 date=1203282215]
Gas prices might not hurt top 12 Div 1, but most corps are struggling to maintain a smaller membership and adding bodies to offset costs isn't possible.�� ��

...and are some corps really charging 2k for dues now?![/quote]

For the 2008 season, a couple of quick examples: Spirit of JSU is charging $2,375 and SCV is charging $2,200.�� I'm sure other corps are charging similar fees.�� It takes a lot of money to run a competitive corps and much more money to run a highly competitive corps.�� Gas is but only one aspect of the total picture.

I don't want DCI to become BCI or whatever.�� The characteristic sounds that identifies drum corps, well, I don't want to see (or hear) that identity lost.�� That sound is what attracted me to the activity all those years ago.�� Even when the front ensemble began to develop it didn't bother me because it was still a percussion instrument that required a visible technique to produce a quality sound.�� And narration, especially excessive narration, bothers me.

Wow, I had no idea it was so expensive now.  Around '99-'01 I had some students in Scouts that were paying 700-ish, and maybe 900-ish in Cavies.

I paid around $800 in 2002 for Blue Stars (Div 3), dues in 2004 were around $1,200 (Div2), and now they cap at about $2,100.