Human Playback (dynamics) - Finale 2008

Windows XP - Intel 1.66 GHz
2GB RAM
Finale 2008
VDL 2.5 + Kontakt Player 2

I'm have VDL 2.5 integrated into Finale 2008 with Kontakt Player 2 and for some reason, any dynamic markings that Human Playback is supposed to read are not being included in playback.  For instance, a passage marked at piano sounds no different than a passage marked at forte. 

I have checked all of my Human Playback settings thoroughly again and again (";incorporate data"; and ";play recorded key velocities";).  The weird thing is, crescendos and decrescendos DO seem to play back, but they are hardly noticeable (EX: p to ff sounds like p to mp).  I have also tried changing the % value for cresc/decresc to the highest amount, but still no difference.  Altering the key velocities manually with the midi tool didn't even seem to have any effect. 

This is really puzzling me because I used VDL 2.5 and Kontakt 2 a few months ago with Finale 2006b and I had no issues with playback.  I recently upgraded to Finale 2008 (I got the new templates from Tapspace too), and now this happens.  Any ideas?

Thanks.
I have heard other issues with the Garritan Concert and Marching Band not being read properly with Human Playback.  It is certainly possible, but I have always goten best playback with HP set to NONE and then editing MIDI Data with the MIDI Tool, although I have recently been getting prety good playback with HP as well.

There may be some settings in the HP Preferences that you can create or edit to get these to playback better.  HP Will read from the Staff Name to see what you have and if you have a Staff Name like ";Perc. Aux.Timpani"; HP may certainly have an issue with this.  This is just an example.  But, you can go into the HP Preferences and set certain techniques etc, to take effect ";If Device Name contains...";  ";If Staff Name Contains...";  ";No Filter";  etc. 

What happens if you simply change the Staff Name to ";Percussion"; ";Percussion 1"; etc?  Does playback get better?
Warren-

Another good tip.. thanks!  Unfortunately, I had already exhausted that solution also and it didn't seem to fix my problem.  All of my instruments seemed to be defaulted to ";Accept"; so I'm still not sure what's going on.

Thanks for your input though.

Maybe it's just a Finale 2008 glitch..
I was having pretty much this issue with Garritan Marching Band sounds, although my VDL sounds were working fine, so this may, or may not, be your issue.

In Finale, click on MIDI/Audio - VST Setup�� and choose one of the channels with VDL. Choose one of the VDL instruments and click on the little ";gears"; icon in the top left. Under ";Instrument Options"; click on ";Controller";. Make sure that ";Accept standard controllers for volume and pan"; is checked. I found that Garritan Marching Band defaulted to 'not checked' as well as Garritan Personal Orchestra, but in my case, Virtual Drum Line had defaulted to ";checked";. Perhaps yours has defaulted to ";not checked"; for some reason. Once I changed each and every instrument to ";checked";, it worked fine. Unfortunately, I have not yet devised a method to change the default setting to ";checked";, so I must do this everytime that I add an instrument. Hopefully, this will be your issue. If not, at least you checked it out.

Warren Barnett
[quote author=Coach link=topic=2367.msg12857#msg12857 date=1208213196]
With Human Playback you should start before the hairpin to get the full effect of this dynamic change.  Otherwise you will want to use the MIDI TOOL and set each Key Velocity and turn Human Playback off.  Then it would not be trying to determine a value, but actually reading a set key velocity value.
[/quote]

Doesn't Human Playback read dynamics as absolute key velocity changes?  For example, if I have one measure marked mp and then the next measure marked forte with no hairpin in between (I [i]believe[/i] that forte is 88 and mp is 61), it should be a consistent change from KV 61 to KV 88 no matter if it's 5 measures before the dynamic change or right on it.  Or, am I interpreting the workings incorrectly?

Thanks for your time and help.. I know this is probably becoming an annoyance, but I really appreciate everyone who has taken time to throw in their two cents.
With Human Playback you should start before the hairpin to get the full effect of this dynamic change.  Otherwise you will want to use the MIDI TOOL and set each Key Velocity and turn Human Playback off.  Then it would not be trying to determine a value, but actually reading a set key velocity value.
I don't seem to be having any luck with the Note Expressions either.�� You, however, did get correct playback when you used them? Hmmm...

***I've actually noticed some better playback, but it's extremely inconsistent.  A measure marked forte might sound like forte one time and [i]ffff[/i] another time depending on where I begin the playback.  However, the hairpins do seem to be coming out a little bit.***
When I was playing your file, it looked as though all dynamics (mf, f, etc) were listed as Measure Expressions.  I was listening to the snare and heard it not play back the dynamic changes.  When I put them as Note Expressions (red color) at the beginning or end of a hairpin, the hairpin played back.

Can you try deleting the dynamics that are green (Measure Expressions) and try using Note Expressions instead?
When you go into the Human Playback Preferences -->Dynamics and Volume....  What are your settings?  Maybe you can take a screenshot of what your settings are here, or list them for us.

[quote]Another observation that I made is that if I begin playback at the apex of a swell (< >) and just play the decrescendo, the playback is louder and more exaggerated than if I start it before the swell and let both the crescendo and decrescendo play.[/quote]

With Human Playback you should start before the hairpin to get the full effect of this dynamic change. 



I am clicking on the play button when I play back.

I am not experiencing any drop outs or tempo variations, so I guess it's not a memory issue.  I just threw that idea out there because I wasn't sure what the symptoms would be if that were the issue.

Thanks.
When you playback are you SPACEBAR-CLICK-ing or clicking on the Playback button?  These will give two different results at times, unfortunately.

If you were having a problem with Memory, your issue would be much different, so I do not believe that this has anything to do with those settings.  Are you getting tempo variations that speed up and slow down?  Any dropouts?  Those are issues that you may see with RAM problems.

I tried using the ";Apply Human Playback"; feature and I didn't get results with that either.

Another observation that I made is that if I begin playback at the apex of a swell (< >) and just play the decrescendo, the playback is louder and more exaggerated than if I start it before the swell and let both the crescendo and decrescendo play.  I know that's wordy, but I think it makes sense.  It's almost as if Finale is using a base key velocity that is set from where the playback begins.  I have ";Dynamics and Markings"; set to ";Chase from first measure";, so that shouldn't be the case.

Is it possible that my computer is just simply having trouble handling all of the playback?�� I have 15 GPO wind instruments in my first instance of Kontakt Player and 4 VDL drumline instruments in my second instance.�� It seems like it's trying to handle the playback, but maybe the machine isn't powerful enough?

I'm extremely baffled.. any other ideas?
Try the following:

1.  Save your document
2.  Try turning HP Off.  Then, go to the Selection Tool and highlight our whole document.
3.  Go to the PLUGINS MENU -->PLAYBACK -->APPLY HUMAN PLAYBACK
4.  Have this plugin apply Marching Band Playback and see if this is better.

Let us know if this doesn't help.  I haven't seen any of my pieces not respond to normal HP settings.  Have you adjusted any HP Preferences at any time?
I have tried the MIDI Tool - that is not taking any effect either.  I made sure that ";Incorporate Data"; was checked also.

As for TG tools - I haven't tried it yet becuase I'm unfamiliar with what it's really to be used for.  I visited the TG Tools website and it seemed like it covered options that Finale already had, so I wasn't sure if I should try it.  Are there any tutorials online for TG Tools or should I just install and explore?

Thanks.
Have you done any editing with the MIDI Tool?  If so, any Midi information will be ignored when Human PLayback is on if you go to the HP PREFERENCES on your Playback Settings/Playback Controls and click MIDI DATA.  These will sometimes say HP (Ignore Data).  Change this to say Incorporate Data.
Not sure personally of why that is happening.  I would consider trying the TG Tools plugin for playback.  Here is a couple of links that will help you get going on that.  Or just do a simple search of TG Tools on the forum.  Hope this helps a bit.

https://www.tapspace.com/forums/index.php?topic=2170.0
https://www.tapspace.com/forums/index.php?topic=1932.0
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