I remember once, many months ago, there where some posts back and forth on oil policy where some people where kind enough to educate me on how the magical price goes up on the gas station billboards. So for all those interested, you probably already knew all of this mess...

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/90509


On another note, I heard a fascinating NPR feature on locally owned gas stations. The owners interviewed said they actually lose money when prices are this high. This is mostly due to the fact that the credit card companies get a percentage of each sale and to actually make a profit, they would have to push up their prices way higher than big name brand gas stations. The couple interviewed actually resorted to converting into a wine store to make a profit!!!

Well, and if you think about it, if gas is really crunching your wallet, you are probably less likely to go into the store and buy a candy bar and fountain drink (big profit margin).

I know I don't drop in like I used to...

i didn't read the link, but good to see some interesting stuff on this board. i think high gas prices will force people to use less gas which is a good thing, but the poor are going to get hurt a lot as usual, which is a bad thing i believe. the poor always get screwed in my analysis. the middle and upper class can afford high priced gas and just to cut back a little bit.  the poor will lost their jobs, their homes and more.

Oil is just part of a bigger problem.  It's not only the increased price of oil, but the [i]rapid[/i] value decrease of the dollar.  The USA has been living beyond its means for a long time.  Nearly everything is purchased on credit instead of cash- from the White House to the poor house.  I read that less than 3% of cars on the road are actually owned, and less than 2% of property.  The Federal Reserve (now being investigated for the first time by the IMF!) kept dropping interest rates to promote more lending.  People were able to finance half-million dollar homes without any background checks.  Credit cards and auto loans were handed out like candy.  The government acts the same way- borrowing from foreign nations with a growing deficit.  My hope is the cost of gas will finally wake people up and change the way we live.

[quote author=J Mattson link=topic=2576.msg13725#msg13725 date=1215580598]
Oil is just part of a bigger problem.  It's not only the increased price of oil, but the rapid value decrease of the dollar.  The USA has been living beyond its means for a long time.  Nearly everything is purchased on credit instead of cash- from the White House to the poor house.
[/quote]

Agreed. I just got back from a 2 week mission trip to mexico. It blew my mind what people were able to achieve with ";nothing";. It was a fascinating land of no middle class. The 2% rich had homes of about the quality if our uppermiddle class and everyone else MADE their houses out of cinder block and concrete.

At some points I'm really frustrated to the  breadth of evil things that the corrupt will do to get more money and more power, but then I'm painfully forced to examine the fact that Americans have been living in excess at the cost of the environment for a long time now. Operating under a principle that if you can't see the destruction in your own backyard, then you must not be doing anything wrong. Also , after talking with a lot of my math students this past year, I've been made aware that the majority of them really don't care if other countries fall to pieces because of our wake, a reality that is depressing and sobering but also eye opening enough to inspire me even more to educate  the youth on these important topics. Sometimes I feel like I'm only making a small dent, but maybe among those dents is a great future leader who will inspire many others and cause a great change in american thought.

[quote author=CJ Young]
but the poor are going to get hurt a lot as usual, which is a bad thing i believe. the poor always get screwed in my analysis. the middle and upper class can afford high priced gas and just to cut back a little bit.  the poor will lost their jobs, their homes and more.
[/quote]

That's capitalism for ya. Unless some huge earth shaking event happens, this is just the way America will operate. In fact, it's the way that it has operated from conception. The rich have all the money and power, they feed just enough of it to the middle class to avoid revolution (keeping them happy) and the poor are screwed. The middle class is really where it's at. They have the power to overthrow the rich, but won't do so as long as they can compare themselves to the poor and feel good about themselves. While this is certainly not ideal, living here requires a certain acceptance of this fact, even if on the subconscious level.

But the important thing is that systems of government will come and go, but If we keep over polluting the earth, then no one will get to enjoy it. So if our economy needs to be decimated to motivate people to do more cost/energy efficient things, i'm all for it.

what i don't understand about this whole high gas issue, is why we can't find a permanent reusable alternate? I mean come on, were the USA! I know we have other sources, but those aren't as popular, and they cost more money to make, which i also don't understand, but i'm no economics/car genius. But the fact of the matter is, WHY can't we do it ? We spend money on a war that really isn't helping out, its just us putting our nose in another countries business, and the only reason we shove our nose there is because it could affect us. Why spend money on the war, and not send some of that money toward a better fuel source?

Well we're seeing car companies finally embrace alternative energy.  Chevy handed out hundreds of hydrogen fuel cell SUVs in LA for free, with free fuel, as part of a study.  They are also releasing the Chevy Volt next year, which can go up to 40 miles on electricity, and after that is a hybrid.  BMW is leasing 500 electric Mini Coopers in LA.  So it's starting.

It's interesting that Big Oil is ruining sales for Big Auto, when the two used to be BFFs. 

[quote author=J Mattson link=topic=2576.msg13771#msg13771 date=1215755788]
Well we're seeing car companies finally embrace alternative energy.  Chevy handed out hundreds of hydrogen fuel cell SUVs in LA for free, with free fuel, as part of a study.  They are also releasing the Chevy Volt next year, which can go up to 40 miles on electricity, and after that is a hybrid.  BMW is leasing 500 electric Mini Coopers in LA.  So it's starting.

It's interesting that Big Oil is ruining sales for Big Auto, when the two used to be BFFs. 
[/quote]

Even though it has been uncomfortable, the marketplace will prevail. That's how capitalism works. The evolutionary process is taking place in front of our eyes and no one said it would be easy/fun/exciting.

So, maybe big auto and big oil won't be friends much longer...

I think it's also interesting to see a West Texas Oil Tycoon trying to lead the way into alternative energy. www.pickensplan.com

Now who else feels like singing ";Kumbayah?";

Most fuel efficient car in the world. 300ish MPG

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm

The cost to make one??????

BTW when i started driving in 2000 (crap, just dated myself)  gas was 98 cents a gallon. Now it is 4 bucks.

Therefore, in order to [u][b]break even[/b][/u] with how much I was playing 8 years ago, I would have to get about 80-100 mpg. Bring on the fuel efficiency!

I don't think gas prices will come down much honestly. Even if the oil companies start getting their gas for cheaper, they won't lower the price much now that they know they can charge 3-4 bucks a gallon and people will still pay it. Besides, as we get more fuel efficient and start using alternatives fuels, their profits are going to start dive bombing, so they are going to have to increase costs even more to compensate. Gotta keep those CEO's and investors happy.....

[quote author=perpetualpoet link=topic=2576.msg13780#msg13780 date=1215792433]
Most fuel efficient car in the world. 300ish MPG

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm

[/quote]

that's an awesome concept! now i'm sure it cost quite a pretty penny to make that a reality, but why can't we find a way to mass produce? I'm sure back when Henry Ford had the first assembly line, that the Model T wasn't exactly ";cheap"; to mass produce either. So by comparing that to now, it should be able to happen

I just saw this article about my next car:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=567196&topart=newcarresearch

(it looks more and more like the electric car will be coming soon to a garage near you)

BTW, did you know that Henry Ford consulted with George Washington Carver about using soy as an alternative energy source?  They tried to get it going but big oil killed the effort before it could get on it's feet.

Seems like we've come full circle with all this corn-for-ethanol stuff...

[quote author=E. Cruickshank link=topic=2576.msg13782#msg13782 date=1215805117]
that's an awesome concept! now i'm sure it cost quite a pretty penny to make that a reality, but why can't we find a way to mass produce? I'm sure back when Henry Ford had the first assembly line, that the Model T wasn't exactly ";cheap"; to mass produce either. So by comparing that to now, it should be able to happen
[/quote]

We can, but the problem is that most Americans would not drive such a thing. Now personally, I think this car is badass, however even in times of gas crisis many americans want to drive huge cars and trucks <even if they only get 15mpg> Little cars are often seen as ";weak"; or ";tree hugger cars";. Or worse ";cars for poor people";.

[quote author=perpetualpoet link=topic=2576.msg14057#msg14057 date=1217909878]
We can, but the problem is that most Americans would not drive such a thing. Now personally, I think this car is badass, however even in times of gas crisis many americans want to drive huge cars and trucks <even if they only get 15mpg> Little cars are often seen as ";weak"; or ";tree hugger cars";. Or worse ";cars for poor people";.
[/quote]

ahhhhh, that makes sense. As americans, we should learn to view them as not ";weak,"; but a nice ";hug"; for our wallets.