Roll Craziness

Well, I'm getting an early start on the marching show for next year, and just downloaded the new 5.2.5 template--thanks, Mr. Gusseck, Casella, and Co. for all your work on it!

Having a weird issue with the rolls in the battery, though.  It's happening with all rolls that are a half note or longer.  If I add one slash, we're good to go with an eighth note subdivision.  Two or more slashes, though, all sound the same--a crazy buzzsaw sound that I suppose is actually something like a 32nd or 64th note subdivision.

Any thoughts?  I'll probably be slapping my forehead in pretty short order.  Thanks in advance!

By the way:
Windows XP Pro
1.8mhz Core 2 Duo
Sibelius 5.2.5
Haven't been able to get the VDL 2.5.1 update, though (I've got VDL 2.5)
The downside to the ";hide it in Voice 2"; method is that 16 sixteenth notes take up a lot more space on the page than one whole note. Sibelius will appropriately space the measure with the roll in it so that the notes fit. Once you hide Voice 2 and print the part, it can look awkward. Still, this can be a powerful way of ";tricking"; our programs into doing what we want.
Gotcha.  I was just wondering, since he specifically mentioned manual instruments vs. AutoRL instruments...didn't know why he would specify if he was only talking about notation.

Aha!  I'd forgotten about the ol' ";hide-it-in-voice-2"; trick!  That's exactly what I'll do...thanks so much!
[quote author=Jim Casella link=topic=3006.msg15881#msg15881 date=1237268556]
If you've used 3 slashes on a half note, and heard a true RR LL RR LL, you may have been hallucinating. ;) This isn't incorrect's just not functional for the needs of our playback, which is why single slashes attached to the rhythm of the check pattern is always recommended.

Check out this second paragraph. I would imagine he was simply stating in the first section that notationally, this is how the part would be played by a person. You would indeed need to use the single slash method for it to sound correct.

If you wanted to still have it notated as an unmetered tremolo (2 or three slashes, etc), you could write what you want to hear - using single slashes - hide it in Voice 2, then write what you want to see in Voice 1 and uncheck the ";Play On Pass"; in the Properties dialog box. This way you would get the best of both worlds.
Thanks so much, Mr. Casella! I understand correctly that if I write the part out using ";Manual"; instead of ";Auto RL,"; I can use the two-and-three slash markings to get the sound I'm looking for?  I had indeed been using Auto RL; tried to switch it over, but it's still sounding the same...would I need to switch it in the mixer, or just create a new instrument and copy the part over?

I can write them out in sixteenth notes with slashes, if it's necessary.  Thanks for all you do!
[b]On MANUAL marching percussion instruments (does not apply to AutoRL instruments):
[/b]A single slash will ";[i]halve[/i]"; the rhythmic value of the note it's attached to and articulate it twice. A double slash will reduce the rhythmic value by FOUR and articulate it four times. 3 slashes = 8x, etc.

It's not uncommon to see marching drumline parts written with two or three slashes on a whole note, half note, quarter, etc, however we have to make some concessions in the case of VDL playback if you're looking for a true sound of RR LL RR LL. If you've used 3 slashes on a half note, and heard a true RR LL RR LL, you may have been hallucinating. ;) This isn't incorrect's just not functional for the needs of our playback, which is why single slashes attached to the rhythm of the check pattern is always recommended.

[b]Keep in mind, on concert percussion instruments:
[/b]Slash notation is typical of concert rolls which are typically played closed (aka ";buzz roll";). In other words, the ";Z"; notation you're used to seeing for buzz rolls in marching percussion parts, isn't normally seen in concert percussion parts. So on concert snare drum (for example) adding 3 slashes to a whole note would produce an actual concert roll sample. In Sibelius lingo, this is known as an ";unmetered tremolo"; and is also found in timpani, marimbas, suspended cymbals, xylophone, and several other concert instruments.
That may have been a bit of a generalization on my part with regards to the traditional vs. contemporary issue, but I don't recall ever being able to use the 2 or 3 slash method to enter rolls and have them actually trigger the sounds one would want them to.

However, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, guys!

So...if I want 'em to roll for four counts, I need to write sixteen 16th notes with single slashes?  I can do that, but...I could [i]swear[/i] I usually see that written in music (both traditional and contemporary) as a whole note with two or three slashes above it.  I also could swear I did that in several places writing last year's show (albeit before the 5.2.5 template) and it sounded just like I wanted it.  Do I just need to up my meds here, or what?

I'm going to get the 2.5.1 update ASAP.  I'm having big troubles with NI Service Center...but that's a story for another post.  I won't have to re-enter this score, though, after I get the upgrade, will I?
Yeah, my use of the word 'traditional' probably could have been better said with something like 'conventional'. I forget that some of you old timers might be a little more ";traditional"; than me... I'd probably call that style 'OLD school'. :D
As Josh said, using the single slash (i.e. double stroke, diddle, etc.) entry method would be better. However, ";traditional"; marching band would probably use the multiple slashes while contemporary/corps style bands would use the single slash. This getting pretty particular, but having grown up around what people call traditional marching band, I just wanted to make this distinction.

Also, make sure that if you do plan on entering buz rolls that you use the appropriate notehead/hey on you midi keyboard if you have one. The buzz rolls (or any sounds for that mattter) will not play back properly unless you use the correct noteheads and pertinent combinations of articulations.

Hope this helps as well.
Traditional marching style notation, would be to use sixteenth notes with a single slash to denote a double stroke roll, or if you were looking for a triplet pulse subdivision, notate triplets with a single slash. That would probably be the easiest solution.

If you're looking for a buzz stroke roll, use the Z on stem articulation, and that will trigger the proper sound.

I don't believe with the way Sibelius does it's playback, and the way the template is setup, it would be viable to use multiple slashes to achieve the sound you're looking for.

They'd also highly recommend for you to update VDL to 2.5.1 (you can get it through the Native Instruments Center) for optimum compatibility. :)
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