Speaker/amp wiring question


My school just purchased dual yamaha CSW218V's and dual yamaha CSW215V's along with 2 yamaha P7000 series amps.  What is the best, most efficient way to wire this setup?  Thanks in advance!
Also, how can I chain the amps together? 
Hi gots2drum,

I design professional sound systems and I'd be happy to help you with your questions. However, I googled ";Yamaha CSW218V"; and ";Yamaha CSW215V"; so that I could look at the manufacturer's info, and I didn't get any results. Perhaps you mistyped these model numbers?
I did type it in wrong...sorry about that.  Here are the correct model #'s:  C215V and CW218V...
OK, that's better.

You have two full-range 15"; loudspeakers, plus two 18"; subwoofers. These are quite powerful. Each C215V can take up to 1000W of amplifier input. Each CW218V can take up to 1200W of amplifier input.

Each P7000S will supply 950W of power when presented with a 4-ohm load (this is the impedance of your loudspeakers). The amplfiers are two-channel amplifiers. I would hook up one full-range loudspeaker and one amplifier to each amp - connect them individually and do not use the bridge mode.

This will present a balanced load to each amp, and if you are going to use your loudspeakers in a left/right configuration, this would mean each amp will drive one side of your sound amplification system. You will want to be sure the level controls for the two sides are the same for each channel. You might want the level controls for the full-range loudspeakers to be different from the level controls for the subwoofers.

Be aware that the full-range loudspeakers you have have a coverage pattern. They disperse sound nominally in a 90-degree horizontal coverage and a 40-degree vertical coverage, when the loudspeaker is oriented vertically. I see many bands mount this sort of sound system with the loudspeakers mounted horizontally, because it is much more stable for transportation. Some loudspeakers have rotatable horns to accommodate this, meaning that the horn and the loudspeaker cabinet can be rotated in opposite directions and the proper coverage pattern can be maintained (it is generally desirable to cover more horizontal area than vertical, based on the shape of the listening area). Your loudspeakers do not appear to have rotatable horns, so be aware of the changes in coverage you will get if you have them horizontal.

Here are some recommendations to help with your set up.

1st Amp-Full range speakers-connect the L and R out of your mixer to the XLR inputs A and B of the amp
Here are some recommendations for the amp settings for the 215s to run in full range (bold is what you should do)
Low Cut/Subwoofer/[b]Off[/b]
YS Processing On [b]Off[/b]
Frequency dial (won't matter if you plan to run the full range speakers in their full range)
[b]Stereo[/b] Bridge Parallel

2nd Amp-Subwoofers-connect 2 short 1/4"; cables from the 1st amp's to the 2nd amp's inputs.  This will continue the signal out of your mixer to the 2nd amp.
Here are some recommendations for the amp settings for the subs (bold is what you should do)
Low Cut/[b]Subwoofer[/b]/Off
YS Processing On [b]Off[/b]
Frequency dial-set to 100 Hz or so.  This is the crossover part of the amp.  The speaker will only take frequencies below this dial, so you can fine tune your subs to function as high as you would like.  I have found 90-110 to be best.
[b]Stereo[/b] Bridge Parallel

As far as cabling from here; McCormicks ([url=http://www.mccormicksnet.com/products/band]http://www.mccormicksnet.com/products/band[/url]) offers a Pro wiring solution that is great.  I would highly recommend you contact them and purchase this kit.  This will enable you to use 1 speaker cable from the sound cart to each set of speakers.  It will include 2 75' 4 pole speak on cables, 2 6' speak on cables, a 1U rack panel with speak on attachments to the amps, and a small wiring kit for your subs with instructions on how to install and implement the entire kit.  Also, I would recommend you upgrade these cables to having metal ended speak on attachments for the wear and tear on the cables.  Costs $10 more per cable, but completely worth it.  Ask for Jonathan when you call.

What Joe has said about the horn facing on the 215s is spot on.  Many people will set the 215 down sideways on top of the 218s, but the horn is not as effective this way.  For this very reason, I will often advocate the use of 2 C115V on top of the subs instead of the 215.  This way, you get two horns and twice the coverage horizontally.  With that being said, the cabinet of the 215s are made out of a different type of wood and sound great, especially for drum set and more ";punchy"; lows.

Feel free to contact me at [email]tom@marchingaudio.com[/email] if you need more help or information. 
Here is the 2nd pic for the sub woofer
Cool, a true expert with exactly this application in mind has spoken!

Tom, why not wire the amps like I suggested (one main and one sub out per amp)? Wouldn't this prevent the need to cascade the input from amp 1 to amp 2, as well as provide a simple connection from ";L"; on the mixer output to the ";L amp";, and ";R"; on the mixer output to the ";R amp";.

And one minor correction: it's one word, ";Speakon";. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector

I tend to use one amp per speaker type; one for the full range and one for the subs.  Most people are comfortable with the A and B dials on the front of the amp being the same versus how it would be if the A side did the full range and the B side did the subwoofer and they needed to be separate balances to have the sub/full range mix the way you would like it.

The way you suggested would work also.

I want to note that I usually recommend not running the amps all the way up.  I usually keep the dials on the front of Yamaha amps between -6 and -3.  This leaves you some ";headroom"; if you want to turn things up universally in a different venue and room to get the ";mix"; right between the speaker types.  Don't go below -6 as you can be shortchanging your speakers need for power to get a good quality sound.  Many people will have you turn the amp all the way up. 

I just like to leave a little bit of space there in case I feel the need to crank everything up to 11 even though there are multiple scenes you are going through on your digital mixer.  :)

Hope this info helps everyone out there!
Hey guys!  I sincerely apologize for not responding sooner, but I have been going through some family issues here recently which has absorbed every waking minute!  But things are getting better, so IM BACK!  Anyway, onto bushiness!

OMG!  You guys have gone above and beyond!  This is such an awesome community to be a part of! I will let you guys know how things work out once I start plugging everything in!  Again, thanks so much for your time! 

Ricky Morrow
Thanks for the help Joe and Tom!  You guys are out of this world awesome!  This setup is what I was wanting to do!  If I could give you guys a 1000 KARMA each I would, but tp gives me a 3 hour limit between each karma, ha!  Maybe you can help me out with 2 more things....they seem simple but, I just can't get a grasp on it. 

(1/2) Now that the two amps are bridged, what should the volume be for the amp that is powering the sub, vs the volume for the amp for the loud speakers?  I tried a lot of different things, and noticed if I had the mains -3 or -6 and the subs matching there wasn't much clarity.  To achieve clarity I had to back off the sub amps between -30 or -20.  Does that sound right to you?

(2/2) Would you do anything with the 31 band eq?  Right now its flat....but I would like to experiment with moving things around...do you have any suggestions? Also, do I need a crossover to help balance the speakers?

I contacted McCormicks and this is what I got from them.  We didn't purchase our subs through McCormicks...but would like to have the feature of running just 1 speak on cable from each cart...  Anyway, here is what they said.

"; If you did get the subs from us, you would just need the
Pro Wiring Kit, which costs $500.00, plus two 3' patch cables (to connect
the amps to the mixer) at $15.45 each, and two 1' patch cords (to bridge the
two power amps together) at $8.25 each. If you did not get the subs through
us you'll still need the 3' patch cords, but not the 1' ones and there would
be a different set of cables you'd need instead of the Pro Wiring Kit. You
would need four 75' NS412 speaker cables, which cost $125.00 each (so the
price ends up being the same as the Pro Wiring Kit, but you don't get the
benefit of being able to connect the speakers through two cables to a front
speaker connect panel; it would be four cables going into the backs of your
amps, two per amp).";

Is it possible to ";re-wire"; the subs and configure them to only have on speak on cable per cart?
[quote author=gots2drum link=topic=4716.msg24257#msg24257 date=1401988541]
(1/2) Now that the two amps are bridged, what should the volume be for the amp that is powering the sub, vs the volume for the amp for the loud speakers?  I tried a lot of different things, and noticed if I had the mains -3 or -6 and the subs matching there wasn't much clarity.  To achieve clarity I had to back off the sub amps between -30 or -20.  Does that sound right to you?[/quote]Clarity is the ultimate goal, so ultimately you need to do what sounds right to you. However, the answer to your question might depend on the input EQ on one or more of your channels. What instruments are you mixing, and are you amplifying them with mics or using direct input? You might just have one or two inputs that are very bass-heavy, and rolling off the low-end on those inputs might mean you can bring up the sub output.

[quote](2/2) Would you do anything with the 31 band eq?  Right now its flat....but I would like to experiment with moving things around...do you have any suggestions?[/quote]I leave mine flat. Output EQ is generally a tool for matching your loudspeakers to your venue. For fixed venues you can adjust this using an analyzer and pink noise and try to achieve a flat response. Indoor venues sometimes need to contend with room modes. Outdoor venues, especially large ones, sometimes need to contend with ";air loss"; (the absorption of high-frequency sound by the air).

For a constantly-changing venue I don't think there's any point to messing with output EQ. It will never be right unless you have lots of time to sound-check the venue. With marching band, that time generally doesn't exist. You could conceivably do it for your home venue.

[quote]Also, do I need a crossover to help balance the speakers?[/quote]From Tom's description, there is crossover circuitry built into your amps.
Hey Everyone, great information here!  This helps a lot, and I may have my system not wired the best!  I'm going to make some modifications and see if that helps.

My question however, is that we want to add another Sub to our system.  Our show this year needs A LOT of bass (you know the kind where your seat in the stadium rattles!!). 

Anyways, I was thinking of adding a Yamaha CW218V and a P7000S Amp. (Is the 7000 too much?)

I'm currently running 2 5000's and 2 CM15V's and 2 CW118V's.

I have inputs from the mixer going into XLR on AMP 1.  Linking AMP 1 and 2 by 1/4 to XLR.  Should I continue the loop from AMP 1?  So essentially going from 1/4 in. on AMP 2 into XLR on AMP 3?

What would be the settings for AMP 3?  Stereo?  Subwoofer?  Frequency dial settings? 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! 

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